Intonation Questions

[LimDidit]

So i noticed tuning my ray one day that even though I tuned the strings open the notes down the neck were off tune

so i dabbled around and tried to solve this matter on my own
found a site on how to fix intonations blah blah
Setting Bass Intonation

so did what the link above told me to do
tried to tune the open string and intonate the 12th(octave)

but when i find that the 12th is in tune with the open
the 5 - 7ths frets are off
then i read
"You will discover that it is impossible to get every single fret perfectly in tune. This is normal. Fretted instruments have a natural flaw where they can’t be perfectly intonated. You can just get really close."

so i compromise my 12th to fix the lower frets

so after this debacle...
i notice the screws that hold the saddles show alot of screw now
and the springs are compressed a good amount especially on the E
i must of had to move them alot

is this a bad thing?
did i do something wrong?
maybe i should of spent the 60 bucks to get it done by someone else...
any tips anyone can give?

 

[Big Poppa]

this is why doctors dont operate on themselves! Seriously the bass should be able to be intonated much easier than where you have ended up...see if you can find a set up shop that will let you watch and make it easier next time. The thing is that they really should rarely need setting unless you change your string gauge drastically.

 

[oli@bass]

Funny. I never use a tuner to do the intonation. I only work with the harmonics of different strings and comare them to the equivalent fretted notes. Naturally, you've to be really careful that the strings are properly tuned relative to each other.

I've never actually watched someon doing it or read about it, that's what I came up with because I had no tuner at the time I started, just a ... how you call them... "Stimmgabel", a tuning fork. Is this a wierd way of doing it?

 

[oli@bass]

Oh and something else popped into my mind (just as I wanted to go to bed).
Do not try to set the intonation with old or worn strings!!! You can ruin a completely fine setup by doing so.

I once forgot about that rule and tried to adjust intonation on a five string... it got worse and worse, until I remembered that rule... took me about an hour to get everything back to normal...

 

[RocketRalf]

Funny. I never use a tuner to do the intonation. I only work with the harmonics of different strings and comare them to the equivalent fretted notes. Naturally, you've to be really careful that the strings are properly tuned relative to each other.

I've never actually watched someon doing it or read about it, that's what I came up with because I had no tuner at the time I started, just a ... how you call them... "Stimmgabel", a tuning fork. Is this a wierd way of doing it?

That's the best way to do it actually. The tuner is there just to be more precise.

 

[strummer]

Actually, working off harmonics won't work as the only ones really "in tune" (as far as antyhing is really in tune) are the 7, 12 and 19 fret harmonics. All the others are off by defalut, and yes i can dig out the exact numbers if anyone is interested.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

I have my own "Mini Manual" setup for Bass if you need it..

 

[RocketRalf]

Actually, working off harmonics won't work as the only ones really "in tune" (as far as antyhing is really in tune) are the 7, 12 and 19 fret harmonics. All the others are off by defalut, and yes i can dig out the exact numbers if anyone is interested.

Well of course, the 12, 19 and 24 are the only ones where the fretted and the harmonic note are the same so if you're working your intonation my matching both sounds, you'd have a hard time doing it in any other fret

 

[T-bone]

I have my own "Mini Manual" setup for Bass if you need it..

Hey Rod,

I'd love a copy of that! Hmmmm, what can I offer in exchange? Autographed copy of my latest CD

tbone

 

[oli@bass]

Actually, working off harmonics won't work as the only ones really "in tune" (as far as antyhing is really in tune) are the 7, 12 and 19 fret harmonics. All the others are off by defalut, and yes i can dig out the exact numbers if anyone is interested.

The 5th fret should be in tune as well?
And naturally, with stringed/fretted instruments you always have the problem of the tempered tuning.

 

[oli@bass]

Well of course, the 12, 19 and 24 are the only ones where the fretted and the harmonic note are the same so if you're working your intonation my matching both sounds, you'd have a hard time doing it in any other fret

Well, I actually use them to compare to notes on other strings.
That way, you can hear very easily how far off the fretted note is.

 

[RocketRalf]

Just for general knowledge, I found this link, it has a table where it compares equal tempered tuning with just tuning (the one produced by all the harmonics on a single string). Here you can see that the only harmonic that is ever gonna be perfectly in tune is the octave and its multiples, but the fifth is quite close