Is it possible to....

[candid_x]

... set up a MM trem system so that it

a) works easily and fluidly and...
b) maintains rock solid tuning in open strings during aggressive bends, including double stop notes and chords?

Or does it, as I've always thought, come down to choosing between a or b?

 

[beej]

As you guessed, ain't no free lunch. Tightening 'er up keeps it from dropping when you bend, but then it's tougher to operate.

 

[GuitarHack]

Bruce, the answer has to be "no"...without modifying your playing technique.

I've settled on a happy medium. I set the spring tension sort of on the light side (smooth and responsive), so that the bridge will sag if I bend, but I've developed the habit of leaning on the bridge with the palm of my hand when I bend, keeping it flat on the guitar. This works pretty well, assuming the trem is non-floating...I'm not good enough to do it on my Luke, but a real player might be able to do that fairly well. But, it works on the ASS and Silo Special, and I'm a crummy enough player that it doesn't slow me down to any real degree.

YMMV,
Hack

 

[ShaneV]

You have to compromise a bit, but t is possible to get the best of both worlds to some degree.

I find that tightening the trem claw pretty tight, but angling one or more springs produces a more fluid feel, even when the action of the bar is set really tight (I use three springs with 10s tuned to Eb and have the bass side spring angled). You get almost a 'sweet spot' where the springs hold really tight while in their resting position, but stretch really fast and easy as soon as you move the bar. It takes some fiddling to get it right, but I think it's doable.

 

[candid_x]

Thanks, guys. Pretty much as I've figured. Up till now it's been 5 springs and a tight claw. Maybe I'll work with the palm-on-bridge technique awhile and see if I can manage that.

 

[Ripper]

Like what all others have said, it a "no" man, Bruce. This is something that has been bothering me much too. Thats why I have 3 hardtails guitar on top of the other 3 with trem/floyd (mixture of MM & Ibanz).

No best of both world they say.

Speaking of this, I think you need a hardtail!

 

[whitestrat]

... set up a MM trem system so that it

a) works easily and fluidly and...
b) maintains rock solid tuning in open strings during aggressive bends, including double stop notes and chords?

Or does it, as I've always thought, come down to choosing between a or b?

I've thought about this a lot... I think I might have stumbled onto something here. Just haven't had the time to draw it out.

You can't set one existing up to do both, but a new trem design encompassing the following could do it:

Imagine a trem within a trem. The outer one only allows divebombs, and is secured by a small hydraulic spring that isn't linear, so this allows the trem to stay in place for minor tension adjustments like double stop bending.

And the inner one has its own individual rotary spring pivot but set only to allow pull ups...

If a string breaks, The tension loss won't affect the bridge because the inner one is constantly forced to close, and the outer one is meant to stay.

It's not that complex a design, but manufacturing it might take some R&D work...

 

[beej]

There are some alternate trem designs that do this. Patent issues prevent some from becoming mainstream. But there are a few other ones out there- for example, the "Trem-King".

 

[candid_x]

Interesting design ideas.

Jimmy, most of my guitars have been hardtail. Deciding on the Silo Special with trem was a compromise I didn't want to make, but then I realized that the tone of a trem equipped guitar has a certain twang that my hardtails seemed to lack. I was thinking of setting one of mine up with 3 springs and trem, but keeping the other one locked up, just to try it out.

 

[Smellybum]

You'll forgive me for laughing Bruce, it's just good to know that somebody else went through the same agro as me!

the systems once fine tuned to indivuduals tastes are out of this world, it's getting there that the pain, each ball should come with it's own guitar tech - I am serious when i say it took me months to get my axis trem super right - but ironically all i had to do with my luke was restring it!!!

Well worth the time to get it going but I share your pain sir!

 

[ShaneV]

You'll forgive me for laughing Bruce, it's just good to know that somebody else went through the same agro as me!

the systems once fine tuned to indivuduals tastes are out of this world, it's getting there that the pain, each ball should come with it's own guitar tech - I am serious when i say it took me months to get my axis trem super right - but ironically all i had to do with my luke was restring it!!!

Well worth the time to get it going but I share your pain sir!

Yeah, I've spent hours making minute adjustments to my silo's trem, but it's well worth it!

 

[Ripper]

I realized that the tone of a trem equipped guitar has a certain twang that my hardtails seemed to lack. I was thinking of setting one of mine up with 3 springs and trem, but keeping the other one locked up, just to try it out.

Bruce, you know its the trem cavity, the suspension of the strings..etc that gives you that extra twang. Too bad man, its either twang, or more sustain from the hardtail. 5-springed the other silo, thats the way to go! (But I think it will gives you some twang, still..., nothin beats good ol wood to transcend that little bit of vibration.)

 

[candid_x]

Jimmy, the trem block also plays a role in the twang factor. I don't think the springs actually make much difference to the sound, though the cavity would, naturally.

R.e. Strat type hardtail guitars (i.e. a hardtail G&L Legacy), I've noticed something that Rob recently mentioned about his hardtail Silo Special: it sounded big when opened up. At lower volumes mine felt or sounded kinda dead or flat, but at gig volume: big, big sound! Contrarily, my trem Specials sound alive even at lower volumes.