It just occurred to me...

[Katana6506]

I was thinking about Floyd Rose bridges and sustain yesterday as I practiced, so I decided to test the amount of sustain my guitar (Floyd-equipped) had. I was surprised at the amazing LACK of sustain that resulted...

As the Silo I'm eyeing is equipped with a Floyd, I was wondering if any members here have experienced a drop in sustain when playing a guitar equipped with a Floyd as opposed to a non-Floyd guitar (EVH w/Floyd vs. Axis w/ vintage trem, for example.) Although my Floyd is made out of cheap, lightweight materials (it's an Asian-made licenced-Floyd) I've heard the term "sustain-killer" applied to all Floyds. Would the heavier construction of the Gotoh Floyd remedy this somewhat?

I don't really want to pass up on this guitar...any help would be appreciated.

 

[Roxy]

Not a problem for me. My Axis "sustains for days" as the saying goes. The way EVH prefers it setup may have something to do with it (flat to surface), the way the pickups are designed and mounted, choice of woods, etc. I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy!

 

[Devnor]

Is your bridge flat against the body or full-floating? Why would a Floyd Rose have less sustain than the Vintage bridge?

FWIW my Axis & Morse guitars "sing". No sustain issues whatsoever. I'm playing thru a Mesa Mk III (they were able to fix it).

 

[AxSport4me]

That happens with a floating trem bridge. There are aftermarket pickups out there that accomadates the lack of sustain because of those bridges.I say if you like the guitar go for it! You can always get different pickups that will work better!!!!

 

[savannah_sean]

I have a carvin DC727 7-string with a floyd rose, and while I can't comment on the sustain issue (it's been a long time since I've played it through an amp), the guitar does have a "sustain issue" of another sort: the springs seem to have a natural frequency that's right at middle C...so when I play a C chord, I get this big ringing vibration in the chamber where the springs are. Has anyone else experienced this? I figured I'd "muffle" the springs somehow, but haven't gotten around to it since I don't play that guitar too much.

 

[tommyindelaware]

I have a carvin DC727 7-string with a floyd rose, and while I can't comment on the sustain issue (it's been a long time since I've played it through an amp), the guitar does have a "sustain issue" of another sort: the springs seem to have a natural frequency that's right at middle C...so when I play a C chord, I get this big ringing vibration in the chamber where the springs are. Has anyone else experienced this? I figured I'd "muffle" the springs somehow, but haven't gotten around to it since I don't play that guitar too much.

that's carvin's built-in vintage spring reverb !!!!!!!!

 

[NorM]

nope, haven't noticed.

 

[OrangeChannel]

Why would a Floyd Rose have less sustain than the Vintage bridge?

Due to the shortened string length...and the factor that you're locking the strings down at the nut and the bridge....the strings don't resonate as they would with a non locking bridge...it's noticeable too.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Due to the shortened string length...and the factor that you're locking the strings down at the nut and the bridge....the strings don't resonate as they would with a non locking bridge...it's noticeable too.

Hmmm....

As much as I hate to admit it, I think there may be something to this. Although I think pickups have a greater overall impact on sustain (and playing volume level for that matter too).

I have an Axis, a Petrucci, and an Ibanez Universe. All have different trems (or set ups, i.e., Axis on the body, Universe floating). I do notice different sustain levels in each. The Axis is the best, and I think it's due to the trem resting on the body and the higher output pickups. But I can't say for certain, just my personal observations with my own gear.

 

[tommyindelaware]

Hmmm....

As much as I hate to admit it, I think there may be something to this. Although I think pickups have a greater overall impact on sustain (and playing volume level for that matter too).

I have an Axis, a Petrucci, and an Ibanez Universe. All have different trems (or set ups, i.e., Axis on the body, Universe floating). I do notice different sustain levels in each. The Axis is the best, and I think it's due to the trem resting on the body and the higher output pickups. But I can't say for certain, just my personal observations with my own gear.

the longer the distance between the the ball of the string, and the tunning post .....the more taunt the string must be to reach a standard pitch.
take a les paul & a firebird.... both w/ 10's on them. they both are 24&3/4 scale.....but the strings will be more slinky on the les paul due to the lenght between the tuning post & thestring ball being shorter.

so the same size high e & b strings on ebmm guitars feel a little more slinky than on a strat.....because of the headstock config........... even though they are the same scale. it's a shorter distance on a ebmm from the ball of the string to the tunning post . ( on the high e & b strings).

 

[bluebullet]

i have never had a sustain problem with my axis. maybe it is the bridge resting on the body that helps . i think its the cast metal that the cheaper floyds are made out of that kill sustain. but im just speculating.

 

[nobozos]

Sustain is dependent on a lot of different things, not the least of which is the type of hardware on your guitar. Everybody knows sustain is how long a note rings out, but understanding what elements create the circumstances for good/bad sustain will help a great deal.

Sustain, by my definition, is the vibration of the string being prolonged due to the transferrence of the resonance of the wood, and the mass of certian structural components of the guitar. The string vibrates, and that causes the wood to resonate at certian frequencies. This resonance is transferred back to the string, causing it to vibrate. The better contact your strings have to the wood, the better the transfer of resonance. Different more powerful pickups can sense weaker vibrations of the string, but have nothing to do with actual sustain.

That being said:

Any crappy hardware can have an adverse impact on sustain. If the mass or density of the metal is poor, part of the resonance transfer is lost. A floating Floyd is problematic, because the most transfer you have between the wood and the strings is the size of two knife edges on two bolts, and 3 spring ends the size of a pencil lead. The majority of the resonance is lost in the springs, vibrating them instead of the strings. The "Carvin Reverb" is an extreme example of this effect.
This is perhaps why the Axis has incredible sustain, because the bridge is flush mounted to the body, increasing the contact from the strings to the body. Even if the Floyd on the Sil is floating, you can put a block inside the trem cavity so that it can only be pulled down, and you will have the same effect as the increased sustain of the Axis.

Construction of the body, and structural mass in key areas of the guitar are also very important for consistancy of sustain. For example: the older PRS guitars were notorious for having "dead spots" on the neck around the 12th fret. You could not get a note to ring out. Once the initial vibration was gone, the note died. It was determined that the dead spots were due to a lack of mass on the back of the neck near the body, so they extended the neck heel a couple inches, which solved the problem to a great degree.

Don't let the Floyd scare you.

 

[beej]

Wow- great explanation.

One thing to add- pickups can have a significant impact on sustain, especially humbuckers. Strong pickups often have large magnetic fields and will attract the strings, thus dampening them and reducing sustain.

Reducing their distance from the strings, or going with low-gauss magnetic pickups can alleviate this if it's a problem.

 

[nobozos]

True. I should have said that Pickups have nothing to do with increasing actual sustain. Good point.

 

[Katana6506]

Thanks for all the help-I'll probably use a block in the trem cavity should I get this guitar. It's a recessed Floyd; therefore, I can't establish body-to-bridge contact as you would on an Axis. With my current guitar, cheap components would definitely be the first thing I'd point my finger at as a cause of the sustain loss.

As to the pickups on this guitar, I don't think I'll have to worry too much about their effect on sustain; none of them are so powerful as to be able to pull the strings toward the body (I would guess.) Here's the config: stock humbucker in the bridge, DiMarzio Cruiser single-coil size 'bucker in the middle, and another Cruiser in the neck. Sort of what Vince Neil used when he played a Silo.

 

[Jimi D]

Lots of good points have been made here, but in terms of Floyd guitars, I think the whole "the trem robs the guitar of sustain" thing can be blown out of proportion... One thing that no one has mentioned yet is the relationship between amplifier gain and volume and the guitar's apparent sustain... since most people aren't using their Floyd-equipped axe to play accoustic folk, most of your sustain issues can be tweaked out in any live environment... Gain = Sustain. Simple

 

[Pundix]

FWIW my Axis & Morse guitars "sing". No sustain issues whatsoever. I'm playing thru a Mesa Mk III (they were able to fix it).

Devnor, I'm glad to hear that you were able to get the flaming boogie repaired. Not much sadder than an out of service boogie. Was it the capicitor leaking? That's what caused my boogie to flame on..