Help! JP/Majesty Tremolo Flutter - Making It Better?

[decreebass]

7-String JP/Majesty Tremolo Flutter - Making It As Good As a Six - Big Poppa needed!

So my Majesty 7 is a fantastic guitar, but I feel the flutter is a little lacking; overall, it seems the 7-string JPs lack the magnificent flutter that their 6-string counterparts have; like it's not as pronounced or dramatic...

Does anyone know how to improve this? My thoughts are this:

1) Lighter gauge strings
2) More springs, less tension per spring
3) Less springs, more tension per string
4) Some combination of the above...

Anyone have lots of experience with really working the JP/Maj trem to get the best flutter? I know I'm doing the flutter correctly because I can get all the flutter I need on my 6-string JPXI strung with 9s. My Maj 7 is strung with 10s from the factory, but I'm considering using lighter strings if I can't get the magical flutter from trem adjustments.

Ideas, anyone? Thanks in advance

 

[DrewH]

Its a matter of physics. There are certain things you can do...and yes lighter strings help... but 7 string trems will never flutter as well as a 6.

 

[decreebass]

Dang. It's as I feared.

 

[PaoloGilberto]

well I thought it's just me ))
I've noticed the same thing comparing JP6/JP7
the JP6 seems to be a little stiffer when I try that flutter technique , but that seems logic since 3 springs are "pulled" by 7 strings compared to 6 strings
like the flutter on the JP6 better
in my opinion adding another spring on the jp7 will be close to the JP6 in feel...am I missing something?

 

[Tollywood]

I have an idea:
Instead of adding another spring to the JP7, how about replacing the springs with higher tension springs?

"$14.95
**NEW** Noiseless Heavy Duty Springs!

Combining the best of both worlds of our noiseless springs and our heavy duty springs, now you can have it both ways! Introducing the new FU Noiseless Heavy Duty Springs.

Finished in a blistering FU red polymer coating, eliminating all spring noise and adding super tension."

Heavy Duty Noiseless Springs [FU-HD-NS-RD] - $14.95 : FU-TONE.COM, OFFICIAL BIG BLOCK PERFORMANCE UPGRADES FOR YOUR GUITAR!

 

[ohdamnitsdevin]

I have an idea:
Instead of adding another spring to the JP7, how about replacing the springs with higher tension springs?

"$14.95
**NEW** Noiseless Heavy Duty Springs!

Combining the best of both worlds of our noiseless springs and out heavy duty springs, now you can have it both ways! Introducing the new FU Noiseless Heavy Duty Springs.

Finished in a blistering FU red polymer coating, eliminating all spring noise and adding super tension."

Heavy Duty Noiseless Springs [FU-HD-NS-RD] - $14.95 : FU-TONE.COM, OFFICIAL BIG BLOCK PERFORMANCE UPGRADES FOR YOUR GUITAR!

You may be onto something.

 

[decreebass]

So... In other words no one has tried this and knows for sure? lol I'm not trying to be impatient or a d*** or anything, but I'm wondering if anyone knows for absolute CERTAIN if there's a way to improve the flutter on the 7-strings.

It would seem logical that since there is more string tension, then there should be more spring tension, however, if the bridge is balanced, wouldn't that indicate that the tension is balanced as well? Wouldn't this bring us back to the same zero-pointno matter if we were a two-stringed guitar or 45-string guitar?

DrewH - you state that it's "a matter of physics," but what does that mean as far as what would make the 7-string behave like the six-string? Or have you tried everything and have concluded that the 7 will never flutter as well as the 6? For some reason I'm actually more inclined to believe this unless anyone has tried something that actually works...

Hmm. Maybe the best thing to do would be to email EBMM directly - or perhaps BigPoppa can drop by and shed some light on this?

 

[PaoloGilberto]

I have removed one spring from my sterling JP70 because those were to stiff and the tremolo wasn't operating as it should. I will post a video of "before" tomorrow

now it is smoother for sure with 2 springs....that means when you move the tremolo arm up and down it moves much easier and you don't have to put that much force as before. and it stays in tune great, though some might think that adding 1-2 springs will have a positive effect on tuning stability
My JP7 has all 3 springs that is came with though...

I think the logic is you can have the tremolo "balanced" and returning to that zero point with 2,3,4 or 5 springs, asumming all springs have the same similar tension...the only difference will be how smooth will be having 2 or 4 springs for ex.
with 2 will move more much more easier than with 4 of course
it's a preference thing in the end

It would seem logical that since there is more string tension, then there should be more spring tension, however, if the bridge is balanced, wouldn't that indicate that the tension is balanced as well? Wouldn't this bring us back to the same zero-pointno matter if we were a two-stringed guitar or 45-string guitar?

 

[JLocrian]

I'm definitely interested in this also. I just placed an order for those heavy duty/noiseless springs, and I'll let you guys know how it effects the flutter after I've tried them out!

 

[ohdamnitsdevin]

I'm definitely interested in this also. I just placed an order for those heavy duty/noiseless springs, and I'll let you guys know how it effects the flutter after I've tried them out!

You da MAN! I don't care what they say about you.

 

[BrickGlass]

Everyone should own the Floyd Upgrades noiseless springs anyway. They are fantastic and do exactly what they are supposed to do. The higher tension ones could very well solve your flutter problem. I will highly recommend filing off the coating where the strings contact the bridge block and the screw claw though. You can lose your grounding if you don't and your guitar will hum louder than it should.

 

[JLocrian]

You da MAN! I don't care what they say about you.

But wait........what do they say about me?

Lol just kidding. Placed an order earlier, and somehow they already shipped. I have no clue how that's possible, but I'll take it. Should be here Thursday or Friday!

 

[ohdamnitsdevin]

But wait........what do they say about me?

Lol just kidding. Placed an order earlier, and somehow they already shipped. I have no clue how that's possible, but I'll take it. Should be here Thursday or Friday!

\m/

 

[decreebass]

I'm definitely interested in this also. I just placed an order for those heavy duty/noiseless springs, and I'll let you guys know how it effects the flutter after I've tried them out!

Looking forward to your review!

 

[JLocrian]

Well the springs came today, and I installed them in my JP12-7 a few hours ago. I have to say, I'm a tad disappointed. The flutter doesn't seems to have changed...if anything, it may have gotten a little worse. On the plus side, these things are dead silent! I've been messing around with recording a lot lately, and there's definitely a difference. No more faint ringing after tight palm mutes!

All in all, I would't say they're worth if you're looking to improve your trem's flutter, but the springs do behave exactly as advertised. High tension and dead silent.

 

[DrewH]

In physics, trem flutter would be considered a oscillation that decays to zero. Why doesn't a 7 string trem flutter like a 6? Well, on a 7 string, the forces are greater on each side of the equilibrium that are acting to return the trem to a point of rest or equilibrium. Thus, the greater the counteracting forces, the briefer the oscillation. If you wanted to experiment at your own risk, set a trem up with 5 strings or even 4 and then try to flutter it. My guess is that it will be better with each subsequent string and spring you lose.

 

[Oh3AreSicks]

I dunno, it's just my experience but I never found 7s flutter as well and 6s either. Whether it's my MM guitars or my Ibanez guitars.

 

[mtrejo]

If only we could ask Steve Vai on pointers!

 

[DrKev]

Drew's physics does not strike me as far off target. More strings = more spring tension to maintain bridge position = greater restoring force = more damping, seems very logical. High tension springs would also logically reduce flutter. I would try two of the high tension springs. Might be the perfect middle ground.

 

[Tollywood]

Floyd Upgrades do ship things very quickly. I'm always happy with them. They also sell brass spring claws.