JP12 Issues

[Kenji20022]

Hey guys! First off I don't want people to think I'm slandering MM or being pretentious or anything. Just to put this into context, this is the 2nd JP12 I've received so far because of issues with each one. With the first JP12 that I received I had the following issues, a dent in the neck that was fairly noticeable when my thumb ran around the neck. At first it wasn't a big deal, but that coupled with my A String Piezo saddle cutting out I went back to the shop and requested a replacement.

Fast forward to yesterday, I received the replacement and played it unplugged for about 10 minutes since they were about to close. And I go home and fall asleep, I have early classes so I sadly couldn't play the replacement more until today when I got home from classes.

I come home and being generally excited start plugging in all my pedals and turn on my amp. But for some reason the trem on the JP12 will not stay in tune whatsoever, with even the slightest touch the tuning of the center 4 strings go completely whack. It's pretty strange since the first JP was literally perfect, it wouldn't budge after the initial tuning even with extreme divebombing, pull ups, and flutters. So I stretched the strings that were on it about 4 times in 10 minute intervals, gave it another go and a proper setup. But even now 10 hours later it still doesn't stay in tune at all. I did take it to my tech earlier and we put some new EB Slinkies on there (10-46), still wouldn't maintain it's tuning after stretching those. So what we concluded is that something is up with the nut, he didn't want to do anything since he knows that it'll break my warranty if he cracks the paint or something happens to the nut.

The other two issues I'm having, is that the springs in the back, even after being replaced with the 2 extra ones I received are extremely noisy. They'll creak and sound out through my amp like crazy if I move the trem bar at all, it's annoying but I know a piece of foam should fix it. And likewise, behind the nut there are some acoustic overtones whenever I pluck the open ADG strings, this also comes through the amp and when I have some gain on my sound it sounds extremely dissonant.

So at this point I'm a little frustrated that two of these guitars have consecutively had this issue. But is this common? I'm going to give CS a call tomorrow and see what they suggest, I'm going to call my salesman (Russ) and discuss with him what's going on. I'm probably going to keep the guitar with me over the weekend to see if this improves at all by the time monday comes around and do whatever CS advises me to do.

Worst case scenario, I come in and ask for another replacement from GC. I'm still within the 30 day policy since I got it last night so that shouldn't be an issue, but I really don't want the next one to come with any issues. If anyone wants any sound files/videos showing these issues feel free to ask, I'm off for the next 3 days so I can get them up fairly quick.

Just want to hear what you guys think, at this price point I want a guitar with no issues but I can settle for something that's not going to bother me as long as it doesn't affect the guitar's sound or playability.

 

[JayDawg]

It's hard to fix a guitar over the internet as we aren't there. I do know this. Music Man customer service is the best in the business. Talk to them and I'm sure they can help you.

 

[christheasian]

gaff tape is your friend when it comes to those springs.

 

[Mick]

Hey Kenji, save your energy man. No need to unload here before giving the people at GC a try.

Did you turn the bridge height screws ("So I stretched the strings that were on it about 4 times in 10 minute intervals, gave it another go and a proper setup.") without reducing the string pull. That can cause the knife edges of the trem to cut grooves in these screws and it will not return in the right position.
I have a store in germany and I have never received a single instrument from EBMM that had an issue or a bad setup.
Good luck and just return the guitar and grab another JP12.
Springs only cause problems in resonant guitars) Bad guitars don´t vibrate as a whole.
Mick

 

[Spudmurphy]

Take it up with the Dealer , who with Customer Service will sort you out.
I'm sure you are frustrated and most guys here would feel the same in your circumstances, but EB will sort you out.
A tiny drop of WD 40 on the trem posts or a drop of nut sauce will not invalidate your warranty so try that.
If the strings are ok and the integrity of the guitar's constrution is ok - then tuning issues are associated with tuners, nut binding and trem not returning to pitch - exacerbated by floating trems which may have binding issues.

So there's a bit of background info for you but other than the lube - take your guitar back and let the guys sort it out - it will be fine.

 

[Tollywood]

I swap out all of my guitar's springs with the noiseless springs from FU-TONE.COM ::: The Ultimate in Tonal and Performance Upgrades for your Locking Tremolos!

Alot of people put a tiny hair scrunchie at the headstock to quiet the overtones.

Good Luck!

 

[Kenji20022]

Hey Kenji, save your energy man. No need to unload here before giving the people at GC a try.

Did you turn the bridge height screws ("So I stretched the strings that were on it about 4 times in 10 minute intervals, gave it another go and a proper setup.") without reducing the string pull. That can cause the knife edges of the trem to cut grooves in these screws and it will not return in the right position.
I have a store in germany and I have never received a single instrument from EBMM that had an issue or a bad setup.
Good luck and just return the guitar and grab another JP12.
Springs only cause problems in resonant guitars) Bad guitars don´t vibrate as a whole.
Mick

Hey dude! Like I said, that's not what I'm trying to go for CS was closed and so was GC when I got out of work so I figured I'd post here and see if I could get some quick advice on the issues I was having. I wasn't trying to unload or anything.

I didn't turn the bridge screws, the action came perfectly out of the box (1.5mm Low, 1.2mm High). The only things that me and my tech adjusted were the springs in the back, and the locking tuners when we restrung it. And yeah I've had amazing experiences playing MM guitars at shops, brand new and ones that have been there for a bit. They were all amazingly well setup and had excellent playability on them.

Take it up with the Dealer , who with Customer Service will sort you out.
I'm sure you are frustrated and most guys hear would feel the same in your circumstances, but EB will sort you out.
A tiny drop of WD 40 on the trem posts or a drop of nut sauce will not invalidate your warranty so try that.
If the strings are ok and the integrity of the guitar's constrution is ok - then tuning issues are associated with tuners, nut binding and trem not returning to pitch - exacerbated by floating trems which may have binding issues.

So there's a bit of background info for you but other than the lube - take your guitar back and let the guys sort it out - it will be fine.

Yeah I'm definitely going to go back to the dealer and show them what's going on. I'm pretty sure that it's the nut causing the issue since the 2 of the issues seem to be caused by it. The tuners feel amazing, they're smooth and don't take a lot of force to move to the proper tuning.

I'm going to call the Guitar Center and Customer Service when I get out of work today and see what they say. I don't want to give up on it just yet, I want to see if I can do something about it this weekend and bring it in on Monday morning. I'll just bring it in and get a replacement, like I said it's not an issue because of GC's policy. I'm not really frustrated, I'm just a neutral haha. I got an absolutely insane deal on this JP.

And I didn't know about the Noiseless Springs, ordering a set ASAP and installing it in the new JP when it comes. Thanks dude!

 

[Benji Peterson]

I hear this complaint all the time from folks that are new to a floating trem type setup. When they're in tune and the string tension is equal to the spring tension then small adjustments in tuning don't seem to effect the other strings. When making a large interval in tuning, like say, drop D, then of course it's going to effect the other strings in a huge way. You've just taken the tension off of one string and put that tension on the others! My friend does this all the time when he comes over and plays with my guitars. He always reaches for the JP guitars and after about two minutes of playing thinks a drop tuning is in order. Oh boy... And of course, there he is, trying to tune the flippin' guitar for five minutes and not understanding why it's so hard. Welcome to the world of floating trems! Go ahead and call CS as I'm sure they'll walk you through everything but rest assured, there is nothing wrong with your guitar. There isn't anything that COULD be wrong! The string path from bridge to tuner is the same on every JP guitar when it comes out of the factory. There isn't anywhere that an anomaly could even exist. Once you figure it out you'll be very happy and probably not deviate from the tuning that you set that guitar up with too much.

 

[Tollywood]

And I didn't know about the Noiseless Springs, ordering a set ASAP and installing it in the new JP when it comes. Thanks dude!

You're welcome. They also sell heavy duty noiseless springs, but I like my Floyd Rose rubbery...

 

[Kenji20022]

I hear this complaint all the time from folks that are new to a floating trem type setup. When they're in tune and the string tension is equal to the spring tension then small adjustments in tuning don't seem to effect the other strings. When making a large interval in tuning, like say, drop D, then of course it's going to effect the other strings in a huge way. You've just taken the tension off of one string and put that tension on the others! My friend does this all the time when he comes over and plays with my guitars. He always reaches for the JP guitars and after about two minutes of playing thinks a drop tuning is in order. Oh boy... And of course, there he is, trying to tune the flippin' guitar for five minutes and not understanding why it's so hard. Welcome to the world of floating trems! Go ahead and call CS as I'm sure they'll walk you through everything but rest assured, there is nothing wrong with your guitar. There isn't anything that COULD be wrong! The string path from bridge to tuner is the same on every JP guitar when it comes out of the factory. There isn't anywhere that an anomaly could even exist. Once you figure it out you'll be very happy and probably not deviate from the tuning that you set that guitar up with too much.

I'm sorry but re-read my post, I've dealt with literally countless tremolo systems. Mainly locking, and two JP6's before. And to be completely honest your last statement doesn't make sense whatsoever, these are still production guitars and there is still the occasional lemon out of the batch. You don't work in the factory, but I have seen a couple guitars from EBMM come out bad in various degrees, they're not resistant to these things. So by saying things as absolute as yours, this thread and the video I will post demonstrating these issues is a clear indication that you're wrong.

And just to clarify, I think you're assuming a reason for my tremolo not staying in tune. I play in E Standard, I don't do Drop D on anything but one of my hardtail Ibanez's. So I don't see how you got that from what I posted, nor made it sound like I made such an idiotic mistake. I know how balancing the tremolo works and keeping these things in tune since I've set up guitars for my friends and some local artists and have managed to keep even Licensed Floyds in tune. I'm not incompetent nor am I making those kinds of mistakes. Sorry if this sounds harsh or anything, but it just sounds like you're belittling me by attaching an extremely dumb mistake to my problem.

I will call CS and GC in a few minutes when I get off from work.

And those springs look really nice but I don't know if I'll like the extra tension haha. The trems on these JP's feel amazing with 3 springs and 10's.

 

[Warg Master]

I always, *ALWAYS* put a piece of foam behind my springs in all of my trem guitars to reduce noise. It's cheap as I always have foam lying around for this reason. And I don't have to change anything out!

 

[Benji Peterson]

I'm sorry but re-read my post, I've dealt with literally countless tremolo systems. Mainly locking, and two JP6's before. And to be completely honest your last statement doesn't make sense whatsoever, these are still production guitars and there is still the occasional lemon out of the batch. You don't work in the factory, but I have seen a couple guitars from EBMM come out bad in various degrees, they're not resistant to these things. So by saying things as absolute as yours, this thread and the video I will post demonstrating these issues is a clear indication that you're wrong.

And just to clarify, I think you're assuming a reason for my tremolo not staying in tune. I play in E Standard, I don't do Drop D on anything but one of my hardtail Ibanez's. So I don't see how you got that from what I posted, nor made it sound like I made such an idiotic mistake. I know how balancing the tremolo works and keeping these things in tune since I've set up guitars for my friends and some local artists and have managed to keep even Licensed Floyds in tune. I'm not incompetent nor am I making those kinds of mistakes. Sorry if this sounds harsh or anything, but it just sounds like you're belittling me by attaching an extremely dumb mistake to my problem.

No offense intended. We do get a lot of similar posts around here about tuning issues all pertinent to the JPs and I'm sure more times than not it is user error. The fact that you're considering a third JP indicates that you must think that an overwhelming majority of the guitars from the MM factory are 'lemons' despite the fact that MM adheres to ultra strict tolerances. I've had 10 guitars that I've bought in the last few years and all arrived perfect. I'm willing to bet most people here have had an overall experience more akin to mine than yours which leads to me wonder exactly what is happening on your end of things. Anything is possible though so don't be so quick to take my points as an attack or attempting to mischaracterize you. I hope you get it all sorted out and can be happy with your guitar.

Also, looking forward to the video. I'm sure that will help pinpoint the issue.

 

[JoeyBTL]

That sucks you're having so many problems, especially on 2 different guitars. Despite what some people act like, these guitars aren't perfect. So I would recommend just returning it and getting one thats perfect. I actually owned a JP12 for a short period of time and ended up returning it to GC because of a buzzing on the open high E string at pretty much any height. It buzzed at heights way higher than what a JP is capable of (I don't even play with crazy low action anyway). The tech and I determined that the nut must've been cut too low. This was right when they were released last year and were scarce so I would've had to wait 3 months to get another one. I was just fed up with it after having problems with a brand new JP6 I had bought a year before and also just purchasing such an expensive guitar that had such a stupid problem.

I can't say bad things about the guitar because it was phenomenal and is most definitely the crunchiest, best sounding guitar I've ever played. PERFECT for metal imho. I just wish the QC was better on something entitled a "Ball Family Reserve". To me, they should translate to "perfect from the start".

But anyway I think you should just get one that has no problems from the start and just be happy with it. Coming from SSO and knowing the deal you got on it, its too good to just return and be done with it

 

[Kenji20022]

No offense intended. We do get a lot of similar posts around here about tuning issues all pertinent to the JPs and I'm sure more times than not it is user error. The fact that you're considering a third JP indicates that you must think that an overwhelming majority of the guitars from the MM factory are 'lemons' despite the fact that MM adheres to ultra strict tolerances. I've had 10 guitars that I've bought in the last few years and all arrived perfect. I'm willing to bet most people here have had an overall experience more akin to mine than yours which leads to me wonder exactly what is happening on your end of things. Anything is possible though so don't be so quick to take my points as an attack or attempting to mischaracterize you. I hope you get it all sorted out and can be happy with your guitar.

Also, looking forward to the video. I'm sure that will help pinpoint the issue.

I don't believe that, my Mystic Dream JP6 was easily one of the best playing guitars I ever played. All I ever needed to do was make the neck straight whenever it got colder down here in FL. And I've played countless MM's from the Axis, to the Albert Lees, still want to get my hands on a Luke, and a large amount of JP's. I don't believe MM churns out lemons on a daily basis. I would never invest the kind of money needed into an instrument that wasn't backed up by it's customer basis in this way. I couldn't get the video because of what happened today.

That sucks you're having so many problems, especially on 2 different guitars. Despite what some people act like, these guitars aren't perfect. So I would recommend just returning it and getting one thats perfect. I actually owned a JP12 for a short period of time and ended up returning it to GC because of a buzzing on the open high E string at pretty much any height. It buzzed at heights way higher than what a JP is capable of (I don't even play with crazy low action anyway). The tech and I determined that the nut must've been cut too low. This was right when they were released last year and were scarce so I would've had to wait 3 months to get another one. I was just fed up with it after having problems with a brand new JP6 I had bought a year before and also just purchasing such an expensive guitar that had such a stupid problem.

I can't say bad things about the guitar because it was phenomenal and is most definitely the crunchiest, best sounding guitar I've ever played. PERFECT for metal imho. I just wish the QC was better on something entitled a "Ball Family Reserve". To me, they should translate to "perfect from the start".

But anyway I think you should just get one that has no problems from the start and just be happy with it. Coming from SSO and knowing the deal you got on it, its too good to just return and be done with it

Damn dude, I know the feeling of needing to get a replacement and having to wait months is a pain in the ass :/. But basically what happened today, and if any of you are EVER in the Guitar Center in Coconut Creek Florida, seriously, go buy from Russ in Guitars. One of the nicest dudes I've ever met, he sent me an email while I was at work today asking how I was liking the guitar. I explained what was wrong with it and he urged me to come into GC even though he was off, he spoke to the store manager so he would work with me to get this solved.

Basically, I explained my issue to one of the guys who does repairs, he started trying to stretch the strings out again after I told him they'd been stretched out. He played it for a good half hour and saw that there was an issue with the nut, but he urged me to play it and make sure I wanted to get another replacement. I got my phone tuner out, tuned it up and replicated the issue for him and played for about 10-15 minutes, retuning, and the second I bend a whole step up, or touch the trem it would throw the tuning out the window. He inspected it on his table and the nut was filed a bit too narrowly for some of the strings and it was causing the strings to bind at the nut. He said he didn't want to replace the nut or file it down since it is compensated and would affect the Piezo's intonation. That and since the nut was painted it on, it would crack the paint if he wanted to replace the nut. Something we both didn't want to go forward with. We ended up ordering yet another replacement, but as Sergio (Salesmanager) said, third time better be the charm haha. I'm sure everything will be fine. All the guys there are extremely nice and helpful, one of the nicest GC's I've ever been to, and certainly the only Ernie Ball MM dealer in the local area!

Good to see you Joey! Yeah man, I really don't want to throw away a deal like this because of the issues I've had on it. That and I truly loved how both JP's felt neck wise and body wise, it just feels like a natural move up from a JP6.

And this one is my favorite out of the bunch, I played an XI and it sounded slightly more compressed than the 12. I enjoy the fact that since the pickups are mounted onto the Mahogany Tone Block, is starts off being very full right off the bat for the Electric Pickups, and the maple cap adds just enough brightness to it! I can't wait to get the new one!

 

[JoeyBTL]

Yea the sound on it was what stuck out the most to me. It's just incredible. I remember going to band practice the first time with it and using my axe fx with the same patches and same volume I always use with my Ibanez's with the cl/lf and it just stuck out sooo much more and cut through just perfectly. I miss that haha

If anything you can always just sell it for a good profit on eBay lol good luck with the next one though!

 

[Kenji20022]

Couldn't wait for my SLR to charge, gonna have to be a quick iPhone video. This shows my issue with the guitar, for something out of the box, this is not acceptable. Period. I kept it unlisted so it's at least got some discretion, only those who see this on here can see the video besides me.

And yes I'm pretty frustrated about this, I did contact AJ about the 2nd guitar to see what was going on. Guitar Center urged me to bring it in for a replacement, but to be honest I'm sick of sending a guitar in and waiting on a wildcard. I also don't believe I should have to pay anything past what I did to get my guitar at least functional. But now I either pay shipping to have it properly fixed (which I find absurd), or pay a tech locally to file the nut for me. Both absurd notions on a guitar worth this much.

Like I said, I'm not raging, but I am frustrated I want someone to work with me here and understand that this is a glaring issue that shouldn't result in the customer investing more money to make it do what it was supposed to.

 

[Kenji20022]

Alright, 3 orders two of them being replacements, and this is probably the most ridiculous experience I've ever had with a Guitar Company ever before. I'm not going to say a word, I'm just going to record the joke of what is called tuning stability with my SLR and upload the video so you guys can see I'm not bluffing.

I've had my hands on 3 JP12's in the past month, I'm glad many of you have had excellent experiences with the company. Everyone who pays the price to own one of these instruments should have an above and beyond kind of experience. But how do issues like this go unnoticed and get sent out, and yes I am questioning the process for the quality control on these things.

To say the very least, these guitars had radically different setups out of the box, the first one had the action set beyond low (1.0mm/0.8mm) in a bad way, it would buzz like crazy, the second (1.5mm/1.4mm), and this third one (2.0mm/1.9mm). There does not seem to be any effective Quality Control being enforced on these guitars, I'm not bashing, I just would love to hear an explanation on what's going on?

And like I said, I'm not saying a word about this third one until I record the video of it.

 

[beej]

To say the very least, these guitars had radically different setups out of the box, the first one had the action set beyond low (1.0mm/0.8mm) in a bad way, it would buzz like crazy, the second (1.5mm/1.4mm), and this third one (2.0mm/1.9mm). There does not seem to be any effective Quality Control being enforced on these guitars, I'm not bashing, I just would love to hear an explanation on what's going on?

Every guitar leaves the factory set up properly. What happens between then, and when you get your hands on it, is often hanging on a store wall with lots of people taking turns beating on it. Even then, what most guitars need when you get them home is a small tweak of the truss rod- 99% of the time adjusting the relief will get your action back to factory specs. Every piece of wood responds differently to humidity changes.

As for your tuning issue- again, it's hard to say anything without actually having the guitar in front of any of us. I hate to tell you what you already know, but you basically have two choices here: take it back to the store and let them deal with it, or ship it to MM.

I certainly understand your frustration and reluctance to do either of those, but unfortunately those are your avenues to get this resolved.

 

[Kenji20022]

I understand, but just like I said in the video, the issue is not playability or anything related to setup issues. The nut isn't cut properly and it is binding, that's not something that can change overtime from what I know.

And it came out of the box like this, it's a brand new guitar. It wasn't sitting up on a wall for weeks getting beaten up by kids day in and day out, it's perfect playability wise it has the right amount of relief and the action is set perfectly. But it just won't stay in tune, I'm going to contact my local tech and MusicMan. Is it possible to take it to a Musicman Authorized repair site and get this fixed without me having to eat shipping costs and such?

 

[Kenji20022]

My JP7 was shipped to me new and I had to sand the nut a little to eliminate the binding. I also used some nut sauce-type lubricant, as the nut is made of synthetic bone and not a teflon-impregnated material. Pretty standard setup for a new floating tremolo, and I was surprised by how little adjustments I needed to make. The sanding part can be time consuming until you get it just right...usually takes a few episodes of sanding, re-tune, test, and repeat. But, sanding is easy and costs nothing. And don't forget polishing, it's the most important part: wax on, wax off!

And then there's the SPRINGS. I would like to take this opportunity to formally express how much I hated those springs. Yes, they are noisy, I can confirm it. You can notice this by squeezing the spring and hearing the metal-on-metal crackling sounds. These types of sounds were also heard when the springs resonated with playing. Some of the worst springs ever. Now that I think about it, it's like some sort of sick joke by EBMM: build the perfect guitar and put the worst version of the cheapest part on the guitar you can find, purely for psychological torment. Mwuahahaha!

Seriously, though, I think the problem with the springs is how the metal was cut: good trem springs should be totally rounded and smooth, and these have sharp-angled edges which create or exacerbate the noise.

How fine a sandpaper did you use? I'm going to go that route with my tech tomorrow or whenever he gets a chance. And what polish also?

And that's not too bad if that's all I need to do, I'll set aside a few hours to make this 2500$ guitar playable. Because it's really not, I tried playing around with it a bit more and it's ridiculous how it'll go out of tune with a touch of the trem bar. It's still pretty lame that you got your JP7 and you needed to have work done on it to play it properly. Not everyone knows how or is even comfortable doing this kind of work for themselves, and I'd be weary trusting a tech if I had never known one. Luckily I have the best tech in town

And the springs on this one are relatively quiet, albeit I can still feel them resonating which isn't bad, but the large vibrations and noise are 90% gone on these trem springs. My literal only issue is tuning stability at this point.