JPX 6 - Massive Tuning Issues with Tremel-No

[Paul LaPlaca]

Hello-

I am really struggling with this and feel like a complete idiot.

I haven't had a floating bridge in a long time so I'm a little rusty.

I've installed a Tremel-No to facilitate drop D tuning.

After struggling with tuning issues and trying to adjust this unit, I released all the thumb screws and let it move freely.

I am still having no luck with tuning stability.

Any bends over a whole step or full bar usage results in complete retuning.

Are my springs out of whack?

Everything looks in line in the back, what am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

 

[kneeoh]

With the thumb screws engaged on the Tremel-no, a floating term will be stable and allow you to play in dropped D. However , when you release the screws, the trem will revert to its natural state, which is to say, set up for playing in E standard. If it has not been set up specifically to play in dropped D without the Tremel-no, a floating trem will not stay in tune unless you block it to make it dive only... of course defeating the purpose of having a floating trem. This is why Petrucci has so many guitars on tour. Each one is set up according to the tuning he is using in the song.

 

[Paul LaPlaca]

Thanks.

I understand I can't drop D with a floating trem.

I am in E (actually everything is down a half-step if that makes any difference).

The trem is floating, the Tremel-No is loose.

No luck staying in tune.

 

[Paul LaPlaca]

Could this be it?

To test the tension of the springs: This is measured by bending the G string two steps (notes) or as many steps as you normally would plan to bend. Do the bend at the 12th fret or so. There should be just enough spring tension to keep the bridge flush to the body while bending the G string 2 whole steps. Be careful not to apply too much tension, or damage to the finish may occur. To tighten the spring tension, turn the screws holding the tremolo claw clockwise - lessen the tension by turning the screws counterclockwise. The tremolo claw is located under the tremolo back plate.

 

[kneeoh]

Yes, that is basically the problem. If you tune the guitar to E flat standard (as you have done), or D or C or whatever, you will need to do a set-up for that tuning. This includes adjusting the trem claw to loosen the spring tension, thus insuring the bridge stays flush. It also means you need to adjust the intonation. If you move to a heavier gauge of string for lower tunings, the amount of adjustment to spring tension and intonation needed will be a little less than if you are using the original gauge.

 

[BUC]

What guage strings are you using? How new is the guitar?

I typically find that most tuning problems that you describe start at the nut, not the bridge. Graphite in the nut saddles is the first thing I'd try. If you're using oversized string guages, try smaller strings.

I have an early model petrucci and it stays in tune great but doesn't react to full dive bombing like you might expect. As that's not really part of my playing I didn't spend a lot of effort trying to get it to work that way.

 

[Paul LaPlaca]

Brand new guitar, one week old.

Strings are GHS Boomer 11s.

Put the Tremel-No unit on it 3 days ago and had to replace the claw, reset the neck and intonation.

I've set the spring tension as tight as possible to get the bridge in line with the body.

When I do the whole step bend on the g string at the 12th fret, the bridge moves a little.

Not sure how to get it any tighter without changing the bridge angle.

 

[kneeoh]

The bridge will move with most bends - I learned to compensate for this by resting part of my hand against the flat part of the bridge. I don't even think about it any more.

If you have done all those things and you are still having an issue, take it back to your dealer to see if it can be resolved. If that does not do the trick, the next step is EBMM customer service.

 

[Paul LaPlaca]

So far, so good. I only adjusted the claw slightly. Very disappointed I can't depress the bar fully and get that string rattle but the pros very much outweigh the cons with this guitar.

Going to bang around on it in floating mode and reset the Tremel-No. Hopefully be in business by tonight.

 

[sballow]

I have a bfr Petrucci and I have to make readjustments to the springs and the and truss rod after each change in tuning. If you want it to be in dropped D, you may just have to set it up to only play in dropped D?

 

[the24thfret]

OP,

You should change the title of this thread. At first glance, the thread title seems to show you have tuning problems with your guitar. Only in the thread do you say that you've modified it. This kind of thing usually reflects unfairly on the manufacturer, because you're the one that modified it and thus it is not really the guitar that has problems but instead your modification.

A better title would be "Help: Tuning stability problems with Tremel-no" etc

Thanks

 

[Paul LaPlaca]

My problems aren't with the Tremel-No as I originally thought.

I disengaged it and was still having huge problems.

Even though the bridge looked even and flush with the body, after detuning to Eb the springs were not adjusted correctly.

I had to tighten them until the bridge heeled up and then let them out until things were in balance.

Checked neck, intonation and graphited the nut.

Crossing my fingers but it looks like it is finally rock solid.

Even got the Tremel-No back and locked for dive bomb only.

D-tuning works with no problem now.

Thanks for all the good advice.

 

[straycat113]

Well glad you have it all soughed out now. If a problem (hopefully not) does occur again I would just bring it back to your dealer and let their tech readjust everything.

 

[DrKev]

You should change the title of this thread. At first glance, the thread title seems to show you have tuning problems with your guitar. Only in the thread do you say that you've modified it. This kind of thing usually reflects unfairly on the manufacturer, because you're the one that modified it and thus it is not really the guitar that has problems but instead your modification.

Folks, please leave the moderating to the moderators. If you spot a problem or have a suggestion, please send a PM to myself or beej and we'll deal with it. We know you are trying to be helpful, but we can't have everybody pipe in when they feel like it.
OK?

Thanks.

 

[Jahanasaurus]

Installing Tremol-No's can be fairly tricky and do take a while to get just right! Make sure you have the Deep-C pushed against the main moving bar to ensure it is hardtailed. The Tremol-No works WITH the springs to hold the bridge in place and is not a replacement for fully blocking the bridge on it's own. Make sure the guitar is set up completely for the tuning you desire in the "floating" position. You still need to make adjustments between E and Eb. Having to set the claw to full tension (do you mean screwed right into the body?) that doesn't seem right, I've never had to do that on any guitar so far.. Glad you got it sorted dude, but I hope this post provides help to anyone else looking at this thread!

 

[Paul LaPlaca]

For what it's worth, sorry for the confusion with the title on the post.

It's been 100% operator error as is the case in most things like this.

No, definitely did not screw the claw all the way into the body, just enough to raise the bridge slightly when in tune to Eb. Then backed off the springs until the bridge was flush. Less than a quarter turn.

I think it was a combination of things, the change to Eb, installing the new claw with the Tremel-No and being rusty with floating bridges.

Everything is great right now, just put on a brand new set of strings, reset intonation and it's rock solid.

Just have to remember I can't dive bomb all the way anymore.

Now I just have to figure out what I'm going to do for the international flight on Wed.

Total slack on the strings or just down a step?

 

[DrKev]

Now I just have to figure out what I'm going to do for the international flight on Wed.

Total slack on the strings or just down a step?

Standard tension is perfectly fine. It's how EBMMs leave the factory, in fact most brands do it. Even acoustics, Bob Taylor recommends it.

(P.S. I made a small edit to the title of the thread.)

 

[Spudmurphy]

I can't think of any advantage in slackening off the strings during transit. Normal tension keeps the neck in equilibrium.
Are there any advantages?

 

[kneeoh]

I've flown multiple times with my guitar tuned standard without any problems.

 

[Paul LaPlaca]

Even 10 hours in with the luggage? I thought the cold would be a problem.