Luke 3 String Buzz

[DrKev]

The other thing ive noticed is that my low E goes out of tune quite a bit (especially during gigs), is there anything I can troubleshoot there?

As mentioned by racerx above, friction is the enemy of tuning stability, so lubrication is key. That means in the slot at the nut and the top of the saddles. But no strings stay perfectly in tune very long especially under gigging conditions. The low E string is one of the lowest tension strings of the set which means is more prone to go out of tune than other strings so we notice it first. My low E string usually ends up going sharp and I suspect tuning down to pitch may help a little.

Re: stratitis, I don’t think that’s what Gemmy is talking about here. Stratitis can be an issue with single coils with highly magnetic pole pieces (usually AlNiCo 5) set too close to the strings, especially playing high up the neck. But as long as the distance from the bottom of the low E string (held down at last fret) to the pole pieces are no closer than 2.4 mm or 3/32” it won’t be an issue.

Maybe some people think it sounds worse on the bridge pickup, but the induction of the pickup has nothing to do with it.

 

[Gemmy]

As mentioned by racerx above, friction is the enemy of tuning stability, so lubrication is key. That means in the slot at the nut and the top of the saddles. But no strings stay perfectly in tune very long especially under gigging conditions. The low E string is one of the lowest tension strings of the set which means is more prone to go out of tune than other strings so we notice it first. My low E string usually ends up going sharp and I suspect tuning down to pitch may help a little.

Re: stratitis, I don’t think that’s what Gemmy is talking about here. Stratitis can be an issue with single coils with highly magnetic pole pieces (usually AlNiCo 5) set too close to the strings, especially playing high up the neck. But as long as the distance from the bottom of the low E string (held down at last fret) to the pole pieces are no closer than 2.4 mm or 3/32” it won’t be an issue.

Maybe some people think it sounds worse on the bridge pickup, but the induction of the pickup has nothing to do with it.

Okay so basically, loosen up the low E string enough so that I can lubricate the nut slot and saddle and then tune it back up to pitch? What do you folks recommend the mostest for lubrication on your Music Men?

 

[Rbg]

when you say goes out of tune, what do you exactly mean: when you use the tremolo? you hear it when you play chords? or you tune it by tuner, play smth and then check it by tuner again and it is out if tune (sharp? Flat?)

 

[Gemmy]

when you say goes out of tune, what do you exactly mean: when you use the tremolo? you hear it when you play chords? or you tune it by tuner, play smth and then check it by tuner again and it is out if tune (sharp? Flat?)

basically, i tune to pitch, play a few songs (home, rehearsal, live gig) check tuning and the low E is usually out of tune. Ive had cheaper guitars stay in tune better for longer periods of time so Im not sure if it is something the guitar tech did/did not do or if it's the nature of this guitar. Im leaning towards the former because Ive read music man guitars are high quality, reliable and usually stay in tune more. My bridge is also decked

 

[Sweat]

Have it done by someone who knows what they are doing Pete D did mine no buzz, 99% of all people buying have zero issues

 

[Steve Nukather]

As mentioned by racerx above, friction is the enemy of tuning stability, so lubrication is key. That means in the slot at the nut and the top of the saddles. But no strings stay perfectly in tune very long especially under gigging conditions. The low E string is one of the lowest tension strings of the set which means is more prone to go out of tune than other strings so we notice it first. My low E string usually ends up going sharp and I suspect tuning dMaybe some people think it sounds worse on the bridge pickup, but the induction of the pickup h

Can you please explain that statement, really interested? Sorry if it is an off topic here.

The increased sensitivity of higher inductance pickups like the Transition bridge position humbucker yields more audible beating caused by the strong rod magnets in the neck and middle pickups. If interested in learning more about this, there is a good study published by The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America here:

asa.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1121/1.5080465?class=pdf

Removing the neck and middle pickups in my L3 completely resolved the intonation and beating issues that I experienced with the stock guitar.

 

[DrKev]

The increased sensitivity of higher inductance pickups like the Transition bridge position humbucker yields more audible beating caused by the strong rod magnets in the neck and middle pickups. If interested in learning more about this, there is a good study published by The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America here

I’m familiar with that paper. They did a nice job! But it does not mention inductance or bridge pickups at all and it in no way supports your argument.

Also note that it is never necessary to remove pickups to get a stratitis-free tone. There is nothing inherently wrong with the LIII, any more than there is with any three pickup guitar ever made. The implication that others must do as you did to get a good sound from their LIII, or remove the circuit board for that matter, is simply not gonna fly here.

 

[Steve Nukather]

Please, let's help one another get the most enjoyment from our EBMM gear. I know you don't believe me, but it is real.

Stratitis - InSync | Sweetwater

1. Stratitis (Strat-itis) is a fairly common but virulent disease amongst guitar players regardless of experience or skill level. At present, there is only one known cure, which has a number of variations, each offering relief dependant on the severity of the individual case. The base cure for...

www.sweetwater.com

 

[racerx]

Please, let's help one another get the most enjoyment from our EBMM gear. I know you don't believe me, but it is real.

Stratitis - InSync | Sweetwater

1. Stratitis (Strat-itis) is a fairly common but virulent disease amongst guitar players regardless of experience or skill level. At present, there is only one known cure, which has a number of variations, each offering relief dependant on the severity of the individual case. The base cure for...

www.sweetwater.com

It sounds like OP is new to setups. Its summer in the States and he recently went for a low/light setup with a used guitar that may have come from a different environment. If it sounds like hoofbeats we should think horse before zebra.. At this point I think its probably devolving past what a forum can help and maybe he should take it back to the tech or another that can review/explain everything.

 

[Rbg]

I think if it is only one string, and OP doesn’t use the tremolo then it should be the tuner key or the nut or the string. If we are talking something wrong with the hardware.

Btw, I personally did not think that paper was that great. The big “so what?” Question was not answered fir me.

 

[Steve Nukather]

It is most audible on the low E due to the mass of the string. Watch at the end how the tuning changes:

 

[Rbg]

This is a nice topic to discuss (for fun or education), but we are going way off topic here. If the OP is happy with the initial tuning and and doesn't change the pickup position then magnetic pull does not change (simnifically at least) in the next 5 minus when the guitar gets out of tune. So, we can assume that this is not the effect OP is concerned with, but rather one of those things people are mentioning here.

Thanks for the links and videos anyway!

 

[Gemmy]

Thanks all for the info. Very interesting side topic, but I dont think my guitar has "Stratitis." At the end of the day, Im trying to get better with working with my guitars and all the set up stuff, which is why Im picking your brains so much. I got rid of the fret buzz thanks to all your help (I wouldve never wanted to touch the saddles or truss rod on my own) so Im learning as I go.

 

[DrKev]

Please, let's help one another get the most enjoyment from our EBMM gear. I know you don't believe me, but it is real.

Stratitis - InSync | Sweetwater

1. Stratitis (Strat-itis) is a fairly common but virulent disease amongst guitar players regardless of experience or skill level. At present, there is only one known cure, which has a number of variations, each offering relief dependant on the severity of the individual case. The base cure for...

www.sweetwater.com

Stratitis absolutely exists, that’s not the question. But it is caused by pickups being incorrectly set too close to the strings. If they are set at an appropriate distance, it’s not a problem.

Helping one another is the heart of this forum community, which has been here for a quarter of a century. So is listening and learning from people who have decades of knowledge and experience.

 

[DrKev]

Thanks all for the info. Very interesting side topic, but I dont think my guitar has "Stratitis." At the end of the day, Im trying to get better with working with my guitars and all the set up stuff, which is why Im picking your brains so much. I got rid of the fret buzz thanks to all your help (I wouldve never wanted to touch the saddles or truss rod on my own) so Im learning as I go.

You’re doing a great, Gemmy! Well done!

 

[beej]

It's important to help each other for sure. It's also important to dispel any misinformation.

As Kev says, 'strat-itus' is real phenomenon, but it's easily overcome by reducing the distance of the pickup from the strings. And it's audible- you can hear when it's an issue.

In the case of the Transition single coils (which are basically Injectors), like most noiseless pickups, they have relatively low string pull. They're also well shielded, so interference with neighbouring pickups isn't likely to be an issue. (I'd be more concerned about that on something like the Morse where the pickups are just about touching.)

 

[Steve Nukather]

I have measured the string pull of the Transition pickups in my lab and they exert considerably greater force on the string than a vintage strat or tele neck pickup. Interference between pickups is not an issue here, the problem is how the magnets change the vibration of the string. The string can never be in tune if the pole piece is significantly changing it's natural movement.

Reducing the distance between string and pole piece helps, but the Transitions are taller than traditional single coils and you would need to lower them a lot to eliminate audible beating. Be careful, because the pickup mounting screws will poke through the back of the guitar if you screw them down without spacers. How the pickups are shielded is irrelevant here.

As far as my background, I grew up down the street from Larry DiMarzio's home and went to school with his kids. I have been studying analog electronics and electromagnetic transducers for musical instrument applications from a young age. In my career, I have provided technical services to a wide variety of world-class musicians and technicians in the most famous studios of Los Angeles and internationally. My knowledge and experience is valid.

 

[DrKev]

This is now getting ridiculous and the discussion stops here.

Closing this thread.