Help! Luke BFR suddenly not staying tune after Trem use

[vaxed]

Hi All,
I've had my Luke BFR for a couple years now and have always loved the trem on it.
(This is the best guitar I have ever owned BTW)
Light in use and always stayed in tune even after some relatively aggresive useage.

I took it to my local luthier for a set up, got home and it played beautifully but wasn't staying in tune after using the trem.
Eventually I took it back to them, he put a 3rd spring on and said that should do it but after a gig on Friday I'm still faced with it going out od tune quite badly.

This is really weird as it's always been so good in the past with 2 springs on it.......

Any ideas?

Cheers

John

 

[Norrin Radd]

First, lube the nut and see if that works. Graphite shavings or Chapstick are nice cheap quick fixes. Big Bends Nut Sauce is the bomb.
Second - same strings and gauge?
Third - did the tech stretch the strings out? If so, how; in what fashion?
Fourth - has this happened with more than one set of strings?
Fifth - does the tremolo float?
Sixth - is the tuning problem consistent? Does it always stay flat or sharp? Some strings or all? Same strings or different ones?
Seventh - did you check to see if the locking tuners are tightened down all the way on the back side?
Eighth - don't worry, if it was fine before, it will be again!
Ninth, if all else fails, Customer Service has your back and they're only a phone call away.

Oh yeah, I forgot before, that extra spring has just put more tension on the neck. Was the truss rod adjusted?

 

[DrKev]

Oh yeah, I forgot before, that extra spring has just put more tension on the neck. Was the truss rod adjusted?

Sorry Norrin, I need to correct you here. The extra spring has absolutely nothing to do with tension on the neck. The neck only experiences tension from the strings, which is necessarily the same if tuning or gauge hasn't changed. A truss rod adjustment will make no difference to tuning stability. You are correct, a small amount of lubrication is a big help.

Hi John, and welcome to the forum!

a) Get in touch with customer service (see the link in my signature, below). Assuming your tech hasn't damaged anything this is totally fixable.
b) Find a new guitar tech.

Try my tuning stability check list. It may be useful.

 

[vaxed]

Thank you both for your replies
Will have to wait till I get home to answe all those questions Norrin.
What I do know is that I have put some graphite in the nut slots.
When I push strings down between the nut and the tuners they come back in tune which would suggest it the bridge end.
Just bizarre it's just started happening, it seems to effect all the strings so as stated in Dr Kev's tuning Stability check list I might have a problem the knife edges and tuning posts.
I can pull the trem arm and it will stay sharp, depress it and it will stay flat... bummer.
Thanks again
John
PS
Bit off Topic but I've just received by carrier a second hand Levinson Blade RH4 Classic in Misty Violet, haven't had chance to play it yet but it looks awesome...My first experience with a Blade

 

[Norrin Radd]

Sorry Norrin, I need to correct you here. The extra spring has absolutely nothing to do with tension on the neck. The neck only experiences tension from the strings, which is necessarily the same if tuning or gauge hasn't changed. A truss rod adjustment will make no difference to tuning stability. You are correct, a small amount of lubrication is a big help.

Damn physicists!!!

 

[ozzyrules]

Damn physicists!!!

And an Irish one, at that! LOL.

 

[ACELUEK]

My new JP6 BFR was doing the same thing which I resolved by:
1) Slightly tightened (1/4 turn) both posts so the tremolo knife edge had a fresh area to rest on.
2) Lubed the pivot point
3) Tightened the springs so the bridge was slightly pulled forward. I have heard that having the bridge neutral (flat to the top) can cause the issue described..
4) Replaced the strings and pulled all the way through the locking tuners to allow for almost no wrap around the post.

 

[vaxed]

My new JP6 BFR was doing the same thing which I resolved by:
1) Slightly tightened (1/4 turn) both posts so the tremolo knife edge had a fresh area to rest on.
2) Lubed the pivot point
3) Tightened the springs so the bridge was slightly pulled forward. I have heard that having the bridge neutral (flat to the top) can cause the issue described..
4) Replaced the strings and pulled all the way through the locking tuners to allow for almost no wrap around the post.

Hi,
Thanks for that, I tried moving the post a bit last night and it seemed to make a difference.
BTW How's the Kemper?
I use and Axe-FX II, there has been lots of discussions about the Kemper on the Axe forum :0)

 

[vaxed]

This is my Beautiful Luke BFR BTW

 

[DrKev]

Beautiful!

 

[BartB]

Georgeous!!

 

[Bota]

My new JP6 BFR was doing the same thing which I resolved by:
1) Slightly tightened (1/4 turn) both posts so the tremolo knife edge had a fresh area to rest on.
2) Lubed the pivot point
3) Tightened the springs so the bridge was slightly pulled forward. I have heard that having the bridge neutral (flat to the top) can cause the issue described..
4) Replaced the strings and pulled all the way through the locking tuners to allow for almost no wrap around the post.

You mean tighten the springs so the bridge will be recessed (moved) more inside the body?

 

[DrKev]

You mean tighten the springs so the bridge will be recessed (moved) more inside the body?

I think he mis-typed and means loosening the springs. Remember, the recommended floating set up on Music Man vintage-style bridges is the back of the bridge slightly raised for floating (3 mm / 1/8" gap, see album in my profile for a photo), which is standard setup on the Luke guitars. Some manufacturers with two-point trems recommend the bridge raised off the guitar body at the mounting posts, springs adjusted for bridge plate parallel to the guitar top (similar to the standard Petrucci model setup, which is different only in that the body is recessed under the bridge).

Either way, I personally don't think it makes a difference to tuning stability. It's far more important that the knife edges and posts are clean and in good condition, perhaps a touch of lubrication (I apply 3-n-1 oil, just one drop on a cotton swab and wipe once).

 

[ACELUEK]

Hi,
Thanks for that, I tried moving the post a bit last night and it seemed to make a difference.
BTW How's the Kemper?
I use and Axe-FX II, there has been lots of discussions about the Kemper on the Axe forum :0)

Good, glad that helped.
I'm getting used to the Kemper. Still wondering if I should have got the Axe FX II instead..

 

[ACELUEK]

You mean tighten the springs so the bridge will be recessed (moved) more inside the body?

You are correct. I meant to say loosen the springs..

Thanks!

 

[straycat113]

There are so many guys who are so called techs today that honestly don't know their a## from their elbow. The original OP never had an issue before in the few years he owned it, takes it to his local tech for some work and now the guitar has issues-Go figure? I don't know how long you know this guy or if you even ever went to him before but I would ask around for someone that has a great rep and just let him solve the issue. I know you probably feel you paid him and he should take care of it, but after two trips and the guitar is still not right I would not let them work on it any further! Especially an ax of that calibre.

 

[mnwst]

My new JP6 BFR was doing the same thing which I resolved by:
1) Slightly tightened (1/4 turn) both posts so the tremolo knife edge had a fresh area to rest on.
2) Lubed the pivot point
3) Tightened the springs so the bridge was slightly pulled forward. I have heard that having the bridge neutral (flat to the top) can cause the issue described..
4) Replaced the strings and pulled all the way through the locking tuners to allow for almost no wrap around the post.

Great advice. I had the exact same issues with my JP6 BFR after taking it to a tech. I sent it to MM and they changed the nut and leveled the frets. I think in my case the new nut did the trick. It stays pretty much in perfect tune with pretty aggressive use. The other possible issue from what I read could be the knife edges wearing out. Turning the posts slightly is a great fix as well as some type of lubicrant. The next step might be to get them filed?? It seems worn knife edges are a common problem and can contribute to tuning stability. Good luck!!