MM Bass EQ Question

[brconflict]

Does anyone have ideas on how I can modify the Pre-Amp EQ inside the Stingray (3-band)? I think they have too much "zing" and would like to soften the extreme high-end. Also, I would like to modify the center frequency of the Mid-control to something that's more inline with the fundamental frequencies of the bass?

I know I can modify the Capacitors to filter less low frequencies, but to my limited knowledge of the TL062 OP-Amp I think there's an additional circuit there between pins 5 and 8, that controls the TL062's high-frequency handling.? Any ideas? MM support didn't bother answering my question, not even to say, "Sorry, we can't help you." Thanks!

 

[smallequestrian]

To be honest, in your case you would probably be much better off buying an after market pre, because I don't think you will have much luck doing what you want with the factory pre. The factory pre is a large part of what makes a Stingray a Stingray and if you modify it, you will lose something.

Actually the better (and easier) idea would be to buy some less zingy strings. Stingrays themselves are not inherently zingy, so strings would be your best bet.

 

[TSanders]

Ever tried flatwounds? Seriously. I NEVER thought Id dig em, but I sure do.

 

[brconflict]

Update

Well, the trouble I have believing that the Stingray isn't zingy by nature, is because even reviewers in Bass Player magazine say the treble can be overwhelming on the StingRay. In my case, using a spectrum analyzer, along with ample listening, is there is an obvious scoop in the lower mids of the bass.

As far as strings, even dead ones sound zingy. Flatwounds are rounder, but difficult to play fast, and they don't have near the punch I'm after (I use them on my fretless, though and love them). Anyway, I still have plans to alter the circuit, in an attempt to sort of kill the EQ issues and make the bass sound more rounded and warm, but I'm just curious if someone knows what I'm after and how to change it. Thanks!

 

[timmerz]

brconflict, are you saying that you can't decrease your treble by rolling off the highs on the bass?

Sure, the Stingrays are "zingy" but the option to roll off the highs and mids always exists...I can go from dead Blues muffled to flat-out Alternative bang on my 'Ray 5, so I guess I'm not getting what you're after....are you looking to bring the overall sound of the instrument down into P-bass range?
I really like the extended "Hi-Fi" capabilities of the Stingray 5, it's exactly what drew me in in the first place....

 

[Disquieter]

what you need is a high quality aftermarket EQ, maybe a rackmount 32 band that you can boost your specific frequencies.

 

[brconflict]

Update

Yeah, I can roll it off, but even with the treble all the way down and the Mid boosted to maximum, you can still hear a slight "clicky" character to the bass when playing. I like to run my basses through a Tech 21 SansAMP RBI, but by doing this, sends the zing way over the top, and completely unmanageable. This would be a popper's dream, and I like that tone, but for my shows, I want raw power and not a transparent or scooped-mids tone. In other words, the bass is active, but is sounds VERY active and transparent in tone.

I bought the HH version, which comes with a neck pickup as well. I just expected more raw grind out of it. I think I may disable half of the bridge pickup as well, because I believe that only adds to the treble that I don't want. Maybe if the pickups were passive, I'd be happier. But the bottom line is that I know how to fix what I need, I just want to know which capacitors and/or resistors I need to change in the pre-amp. This is much like modding an Overdrive pedal to allow better frequency response. Thanks!

 

[brconflict]

Also, yeah I have a DBX 31-band EQ in my rack, and this does what I need for the tone. But I just want to edit the EQ so I don't have to change DBX-EQ settings so drastically when i switch to my Rick or my Fender Active Jazz Deluxe.

 

[smallequestrian]

I can't imagine maxing the mid on any EB bass. Doing that is where all the clicky is coming from. If you really feel you need the mids boosted that much you would be better off doing that on the nice pre that you have. To be honest, I amnot sure if any forum member has the knowledge you are really seeking about modifying the preamp.

 

[Golem]

I can't imagine maxing the mid on any EB bass. Doing that is where all the clicky is coming from. If you really feel you need the mids boosted that much you would be better off doing that on the nice pre that you have. To be honest, I amnot sure if any forum member has the knowledge you are really seeking about modifying the preamp.

Not mids. He said *lower* mids. Important difference. Should pop over the pit and see if Walter knows. Perznilly, that's why I love the 4-band, for the lower mid knob. I suppose a sweep mid is cool too cuz you can twist the midrange into being a lower mid. Maybe that would be the best mod if anyone knows how ... to add a sweep to a Ray 3EQ.

 

[smallequestrian]

Not mids. He said *lower* mids. Important difference. Should pop over the pit and see if Walter knows. Perznilly, that's why I love the 4-band, for the lower mid knob. I suppose a sweep mid is cool too cuz you can twist the midrange into being a lower mid. Maybe that would be the best mod if anyone knows how ... to add a sweep to a Ray 3EQ.

He said is he is running the mid at max. I understand that he may want to lower the midrange frequency, but by diming the mid range on the Stingray he is making things worse. I still think the path of least resistence is to bump the lower mids on the amp side. This is why I too love the 4 band pre, although to be honest I find myself running things flat a majority of the time regardless.

 

[phatduckk]

im very familiar with clicky sounds on the bass. I play aggressively and with a pick and like a bright sound. so that means ... click happens.

in my experience the majority of the click has been due to my attack and not the bass. this could TOTALLY NOT be the case with u ... but i thought id share just in case it helps.

OK ... so basses click got produced from the string hitting the frets and the PUP picking that up or sometimes the string hitting the pole peice. So ... raising the action a tiny bit, lowering the PUPs a hair and killing the horn on my cabs did the trick.

I have no idea what youre playing style is so this may be useless info (or youve tried it already) but i thought id share since I was frustrated by that issue as well. for me the click was not EBMM specific but happened on every bass. However the electronics on the EB's are hot so it made stuff more noticable.

Good luck dude ... and welcoem to the forum!

 

[brconflict]

update

So there is a 4-band EQ Pre available for this bass? Would like to check that out....

Golem has the right idea of what I'm looking for. Although I did say I have the mid boosted all the way, if I could change it to be a lower mid knob, that would be ideal. So, to compensate for the persistent treble that the mid-control boosts, I roll of the treble knob down to dull the zing a bit. It's also true that I can EQ the amp to give me the exact tone I want, but to do this, I find that I'm drastically boosting between 500-800Hz, and cutting between 2-10Khz. That's with every EQ knob set to center-detent on the bass. My theory is that MusicMan tweaked the center frequencies of each knob or the high-frequency handler of the TL062 OP-AMP to be biased toward high-frequency, for snap, slapping, or popping.

True, I do wish it sounded a little more P-Bass-like, but not the standard P-Bass. I own a St.Blues bass with a PJ pickup-set. Plug that thing into a SansAMP with all settings to nominal, and this thing is bad-ass!! Plug the StingRay into the SansAMP, and it sounds badder-ass! (hehe). But yes, I do wish for more boost in the lower mids. So, why did I buy a StingRay? It plays soo nicely, and when I want to cut through two Fender Twin Reverbs, it does it very well. I just want some more raw punch out of the lower mids without having to cut the treble off all the way and max out the mid, nor have to do bad things to my rig's EQ (I use that EQ to taylor the tone for the room). Thanks!

 

[dlb1001]

Well, the trouble I have believing that the Stingray isn't zingy by nature, is because even reviewers in Bass Player magazine say the treble can be overwhelming on the StingRay. In my case, using a spectrum analyzer, along with ample listening, is there is an obvious scoop in the lower mids of the bass.

As far as strings, even dead ones sound zingy. Flatwounds are rounder, but difficult to play fast, and they don't have near the punch I'm after (I use them on my fretless, though and love them). Anyway, I still have plans to alter the circuit, in an attempt to sort of kill the EQ issues and make the bass sound more rounded and warm, but I'm just curious if someone knows what I'm after and how to change it. Thanks!

Wonder if you can get take a sample, with your spectrum analyzer, from the bass directly then take another one after plugged into the amp.
I have been fooling around with my amp since I got my Sterling and I noticed that the treble, for my amp, has to be set flat. But, then, I just have a SWR Workingman 15 amp so maybe with a larger rig, the higher treble might be more pronounced. Could be, too, that the room that you are playing in, emphasizes the treble a little more.

 

[brconflict]

My playing style is very Geddy-Lee-ish. If you go to www.daikaiju.net, you can hear some samples, although you can see what I compete with, too. ha
I went through the same thing: horn disabled, and my playing does have an effect on the twang and zing. So, in a sense, I get the same from nearly every bass. The difference is that this one doesn't clip like a Rick, and I can play it even harder if I need to. It's almost perfect (little heavier compared to my Fender Deluxe Active V), but I just want to tweak the center-frequency of those knobs. By doing that, I will have a bass I'm completely satisfied with. I'm hoping for the best. Thanks!

 

[brconflict]

Yeah, live, it sounds fine once I EQ the 31-band DBX for this bass (I'm using an SWR Bass-750 and a 4-ohn 4x10" Goliath III cab. But in the studio is where it sounds terribly scooped. I asked for everything to be absolutely flat, and then A/B'd this bass with my Fender Active Jazz Deluxe, and it's like night and day difference in the lower-mid scoop. the Spectrum Analyzer would give us the same result.

 

[smallequestrian]

So there is a 4-band EQ Pre available for this bass? Would like to check that out....

Didn't mean to confuse you on this, the 4 band is only available on the Bongo.

 

[Big Poppa]

Br

Heres what I think.....


Please either do one of two things


1. Sell the bass. Dont operate on it you will destroy any resale it has.\

2. Rethink this thing in the big picture. You played a passive bass and to get the sound you want it required the sansamp and a 31 band graphic. You now buy one of our basses that has tons of eq through its active preamp and you run it through the exact rig that you had for your passive bass. It's an active bass! EQ over kill. How many equalizers do you need? What you are wanting is in your bass, big time. start with the bass and amp flat into your amp...cut or boost from the bass first and then the amp if NECESSARY. You have the bass preamp, the sans amp, and the thirty one band eq and then the SWR eq all fighting and overprocessing your sound. I will tell you that the SWR is the harshest tweeter in the bassworld.

You are looking at the bass as your problem...There is ZERO reason to overprocess your sound like you are doing.

 

[brconflict]

Well, as one would say, "never give up", and "it doesn't matter what they think of you". The truth and reality is that the sound I get from a passive bass lacks a certain mark of punch, so I wanted a bass that could add that extra meat that will cut through the marsh of two blistering loud Fender Twins and a powerful drummer.

You might not find this quite so entertaining, or you might, but last night I reached back into my former electronics life and reasoned that I could to alter this pre-amp to my taste. Know what? I succeeded! I pulled a Chris Cornell! What he did on his guitar (so I read) was disregard the norm and try something he figures would make his mark--not that he was the first to try it. He strung his guitar up with three E strings and three D strings. Then, he de-tuned the E strings to D and only needed one finger to play most of SoundGarden's riffs.

For me, I merely found three capacitors and two resistors that had a profound affect on tone and by adjusting the values of those components, I am quite satisfied with the results. Now, I no longer need to drastically screw with my EQ on the amp, nor on the SansAMP. So, what does this boil down to? Come out to one of our shows, and you'll know right away what I like! This thing sounds mean as hell!!

Disclaimer: I should have mentioned up front that I'm VERY particular about my sound. I like to have a character that's easily recognizable when we play live. Why did I buy a StingRay and mod it when I could have bought something else? Well, I'm VERY particular about how a bass plays as well. I absolutely love the playability of the StingRay! And despite my quandry, it's actually quite versatile. I'm also not in the habit of getting rid of basses that I buy, except one Warwick Thumb Neck-thru V, which just didn't have "it", so I'm not worried about the resale value. This things is worth more to me now than it was when I bought it. If Geddy Lee would not let Fender take his bass apart and find out why it sounds so great (to build his signature bass), he retains a one-of-a-kind, and nobody can be him! So, now I do, too! hehe Lastly, I want to say that I'm impressed at the loving support the StingRay has from fans!!

 

[Big Poppa]

Well, as one would say, "never give up", and "it doesn't matter what they think of you". The truth and reality is that the sound I get from a passive bass lacks a certain mark of punch, so I wanted a bass that could add that extra meat that will cut through the marsh of two blistering loud Fender Twins and a powerful drummer.

You might not find this quite so entertaining, or you might, but last night I reached back into my former electronics life and reasoned that I could to alter this pre-amp to my taste. Know what? I succeeded! I pulled a Chris Cornell! What he did on his guitar (so I read) was disregard the norm and try something he figures would make his mark--not that he was the first to try it. He strung his guitar up with three E strings and three D strings. Then, he de-tuned the E strings to D and only needed one finger to play most of SoundGarden's riffs.

For me, I merely found three capacitors and two resistors that had a profound affect on tone and by adjusting the values of those components, I am quite satisfied with the results. Now, I no longer need to drastically screw with my EQ on the amp, nor on the SansAMP. So, what does this boil down to? Come out to one of our shows, and you'll know right away what I like! This thing sounds mean as hell!!

Disclaimer: I should have mentioned up front that I'm VERY particular about my sound. I like to have a character that's easily recognizable when we play live. Why did I buy a StingRay and mod it when I could have bought something else? Well, I'm VERY particular about how a bass plays as well. I absolutely love the playability of the StingRay! And despite my quandry, it's actually quite versatile. I'm also not in the habit of getting rid of basses that I buy, except one Warwick Thumb Neck-thru V, which just didn't have "it", so I'm not worried about the resale value. This things is worth more to me now than it was when I bought it. If Geddy Lee would not let Fender take his bass apart and find out why it sounds so great (to build his signature bass), he retains a one-of-a-kind, and nobody can be him! So, now I do, too! hehe Lastly, I want to say that I'm impressed at the loving support the StingRay has from fans!!

Glad it worked out for you.....enjoy!