multi track recorders

[dbrook007]

I need to get a a multi-track recorder but I'm not sure of which one to buy. Can anyone advise/help?

The multi-track will be used for recording: -

- Direct from an Electric Guitar
- Direct from an Electric Guitar multple effects pedal
- Direct from a synthesizer
- Microphones (do I need to amplify the MIC before plugging in?)
- Bass Guitar
- Drum Machine/Drums

I also NEED : -

- to be able to record at least 2 simultaneous tracks at once
- to have at least 8 tracks
- to have the ability to bounce tracks
- to be able to produce a stereo recording on CD (can this be done via transfering a mastered recording to a PC?)
- to have outputs, including those suitable to a stage amp
- to be able to store at least 4 songs at any one time (say 4 minutes each song, using all tracks on each song)
- to be able to punch-in/punch-out on recording
- to be able to produce a stereo mastered track from all 8 tracks all playing at once (e.g. not using just playing 6 tracks and using the two remaining tracks to bounce a stereo version to)
- excellent recording quality, not badly affected by data compression etc. Needs to be at a production level for demo-CDs
- if possible, to have time condensing and time stretching features
- effects on mixed recording, e.g. compression etc

In addition, I would also LIKE the following: -

- built-in drum machine
- digital effects

I know that some multi-tracks have a hard disk in them. My only concern with these is that Hard Disks can still fail, sometimes within a couple of years. What is reliability like on the hard disks in the multi-tracks, and what sort of warranty is available to cover hard disk failure?

Some others have "media cards" etc... how much do these store and cost? I’ve also heard that these can be unreliable?

I have seen one that caught my attention but am not as familiar with the brand as some other (e.g. Fostex, Tascam, Korg, Boss etc). It's the "Zoom MRS802". This seemed to have most that I wanted but I wasn't sure if I could produce a CD with it? I saw that there was an option for an internal CD-ROM drive - but I don't know what the cost of that is?

I also noticed an option for USB. Would this allow me to create a STEREO mastered recording and then send it to my PC, where I could then burn a CD?

I also noticed some "important notices" from the manufacturer on their website. The link is

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/models/mrs802/pdmodel.html

How reliable is the hardware and software in the sub £500 (GBP) multi track recorders?

It seems to be a minefield of options. Any help or advice is gladly received!!

Thanks,
Darren

 

[PRSPlayer]

I have the Zoom MRS1266CD.
It's now obsolete and has been replaced by the MRS1608 (I think).

To the best of my knowledge, Zoom is the only manufacture that offers an integral drum/bass machine. The 1266 offers 6 simultanious inputs as well (8 simultanious on the 1608) and an CD burner.

Works for me!

 

[Raz]

I have the Zoom MRS 8 SD. Click my sig for a sample (please don't judge the Zoom based on my cheesy playing) Everything you hear was done with the Zoom, all in a metter of minutes...no I'm serious! Ask me anything and I will try and help!

 

[SteveB]

I have owned a Fostex VF-16 for a few years now. (It was superseded by the VF160 and maybe even a newer model).

The hard drive has performed perfectly. I did buy an extra HD for it, for the future because hard drive technology changes so quickly. I'm sure that within a year or two all of the original HD's spec'd for that machine will be impossible to locate (because their capacities will have been leapfrogged), and since my model is obsolete, the manufacturer may or may not keep upgrading the firmware to support newer, larger hard drives.

There's no built-in drum machine in my model, but it can record 8 tracks simultaneously, and mixdown 16 tracks to stereo.

If a recorder has an XLR input for a microphone, chances are there's an onboard mic preamp, so you won't need to amplify the mic earlier in the signal path. On my recorder, two of the 8 input channels feature XLR inputs for microphones and each of those includes an insert jack, too.. which lets you utilize certain dynamic processors like compressors or aural expanders early in the signal chain (as opposed to effects like delay & reverb which are generally added later in the signal path via AUX send and return loops). Most pros would tell you that compression is not an effect, but a dynamics processor (like EQ).

I don't know how sophisticated you plan to get, but you might want to consider a mutitracker and a separate drum machine. You will have more options this way, although it will likely cost more.

The electric guitar (whether direct or post-pedalboard), bass, keyboard, and drum machine will all be recorded via a 1/4" line-level input jack. (You could alternately use a direct inject box to 'convert' these signals to balanced XLR connections).

Generally, you mix down your tracks to an external stereo source, not to the hard drive where the source tracks are playing from... that would be very demanding on the hard drive..being in two places at once! Typical destinations are to DAT, CD, or even cassette or MiniDISC.

Any recorder will have stereo outputs. You can convert these using whatever connectors necessary to plug them into your desired amplifier.

Just about any recorder should have punch-in & out editing, even some of the 4-track cassette recorders offer this. I would avoid bouncing tracks if at all possible, because you generally cannot 'un-do' that, and you need to be aware of many audio realities of sound-on-sound recording before using this technique with good results.

Also, most of the products out there can export .WAV files to your PC (usually one WAV file per track) and then you mix them on your PC using software. Mastering comes later in the process, when you have an entire program (CD, performance, etc) mixed and ready to work with. Mastering involve many facets, including: song order, how much time in between songs, is there silence between tracks, are all tracks at relatively the same volume, etc. etc. You wouldn't want to make an album where one song is very quiet, so the listener cranks the volume, and then the next track is recorded so much louder that the speakers cook!

 

[dbrook007]

I have the Zoom MRS 8 SD. Click my sig for a sample (please don't judge the Zoom based on my cheesy playing) Everything you hear was done with the Zoom, all in a metter of minutes...no I'm serious! Ask me anything and I will try and help!

Tried to listen to the songs... I'd like to hear more.

My connection to the internet is quite slow so it makes listening on-line near impossible!

Anywhere I can download the songs?

Thanks - Darren

 

[dbrook007]

recorders

Which do you think is the best quality and has most to offer in terms of functions AND quality....

Boss BR-864
Zoom MRS-1266CD
Fostex VF-80
Kork 1200 MkII

Thanks - Darren

 

[SteveB]

Well, the Fostex VF80EX lacks some of your criteria:
It cannot mix down 8 tracks to stereo (unless you've done some bouncing first). It only has 8 faders total, 7 plus one master. It claims to mix 6 down to stereo.
It also lacks a drum machine component.
It seems to fit all of your other criteria, though (but I don't know what you're looking for when you say "time condensing and time stretching features"). Are you talking about data compression, or variable pitch, or what?

The Boss BR864 claims playback of 8 tracks at once, yet it has only 6 faders, so I think it operates similarly to the Fostex in that regard. But it does have the drum machine you're looking for, and meets your other requirements.

Zoom (Samson) doesn't even mention the MRS-1266CD on their web site, even under their 'obsolete' products, so I'd avoid that one for lack of support. (It is only mentioned in the text for the UIB-02 interface board.)

The Korg D1200-mkII seems to meet all of your criteria. The drum machine seems limited to rhythm loops, though.. not a fully programmable drum machine. But otherwise it looks like a great unit.

This is my 2 cent analysis.

 

[PRSPlayer]

Originally posted by SteveB: "Zoom (Samson) doesn't even mention the MRS-1266CD on their web site, even under their 'obsolete' products, so I'd avoid that one for lack of support. (It is only mentioned in the text for the UIB-02 interface board.)"

The 1266CD has been replaced by the 1608CD.
And I wouldn't be too terribly concerned with it being "obsolete" as ALL multitrack machines quickly become obsolete. It's just the nature of the beast.

I've found that NONE of these manufactures really have any sort of "support" but rather "discussion groups" to lend a helping hand with "support" if you should ever need it.

I own a Zoom 1266CD.
It meets all of my needs just fine, and then some.

 

[rahock]

I just wanted to chime in and thank everyone contributing to this thread and for giving me an education on a subject I really didn't know squat about
This has been very enlightning
Rick

 

[SteveB]

Rick,

I'm glad you felt our two cents were beneficial.

Fostex actually DOES have support. I've had great response from them (esp. Matt Suzuki -- hey Matt!), and I even sent my unit back for a free hardware upgrade once with no problems or hassles.

 

[dbrook007]

multi tracks

I've decided to go for the Korg D1200 MkII with CD.

I chose this because of, firstly, the price and secondly the features.

I actually chose this over the Yamaha AW16G, which you can actually get for a similar price to the D1200 if you shop around enough!

But, I have read and heard some things from existing AW16G owners that put me off it. Namely, many people have said that there is quite a learning curve to using it and that the menu system is overcomplicated.

I've also heard from users that getting the right sound on vocal recordings can be a bit tricky and that the vocals can be hard to get "positioned" right in the mix.

That put with the complaints I've seen over Yamaha customer care put me off.

I am looking forward to getting the Korg and hope it doesn't disappoint me!!!

Thanks for advice/help.

Regards - Darren

 

[SteveB]

Darren,

Good luck with your new Korg. I don't think any of the companies that you were considering have a habit of making junk.. they've all been around for many years, and couldn't remain if their products were that bad.

As for vocals being tough to position in the mix, I don't think that would be a function of the recording device so much as the person operating it. It could be that the tracks were recorded poorly in the first place, and no amount of tweaking could salvage them. Who knows. That's like someone complaining that their car won't run.. for all we know, they haven't put any gas in it!

Also, you rarely see satisfied customers posting on these web forums (with EB being a notable exception). You generally only hear from the people having problems, and they could be a very small percentage of the total # of people who own the device in question.

Long story short: I'm sure you won't be disappointed, no matter which item you buy. Just get a box and start making music, [man]!

 

[dbrook007]

multi tracks

Some very good points there.

I just can't wait for it to arrive!!

Thanks,
Darren

 

[Ali]

I'm in a very similar situation so let me know how you get on with the Korg

Does anyone know much about using the MBox by Digidesign instead, and recording to computer? I have a Mac G4 400 though that'll be updated to a new Powerbook next year anyway. Would a standalone multi track be better quality, or would I be better saving the money, buyin the MBox and getting Logic Pro 7 or Protools/Reason?

 

[jennifer736]

Hey you guys, I'm hoping you can help me out. I have a Zoom MRS 802cd and I think the drive is going...it's trying but that baleful clicking sound is apparent. Do you have any advice for a silly girl who didn't back her stuff up?

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

The hard-drive in my computer started tapping out morse code a year or two ago. I put it in a ziplock baggie and tossed it in the freezer for a day. When I took it out and plugged it back in it worked fine, and I was able to perform a backup.