Music Man Stingray II

[Zawo]

I have recently become the proud owner of a Music Man Stingray II guitar. This guitar is really vintage from the 70s. All parts are original. After cleaning it, I wanted to set it up for myself. Everything worked fine so far, except for the saddle riders. None of the hex keys or other tools I usually use fit.

So my question is, do you know which tools were used for the saddle riders at the time?

Best regards
Zawo

 

[DrKev]

You mean the saddle height adjustment screws? They look very small. Maybe 3/64" (1.2 mm)?

 

[MarkF786]

Wow, I didn't realize there was a prior generation Music Man Stingray II guitar and only knew of the recently released one in collaboration with Cory Wong.

 

[Sweat]

Yea not a Stingray II , wrong description just an old Stingray pre EBMM, too vintage for me. My 19992 Silo is as old as I will get unless the right EVH or Axis hardtail shows up.

No idea on the size

 

[Zawo]

You mean the saddle height adjustment screws? They look very small. Maybe 3/64" (1.2 mm)?

Thanks a lot!!! I ordered a set of all sizes It is a 1/20" hex key.
This size is not really common here in Germany

 

[Zawo]

Yea not a Stingray II , wrong description just an old Stingray pre EBMM, too vintage for me. My 19992 Silo is as old as I will get unless the right EVH or Axis hardtail shows up.

No idea on the size

It is a Stingray II

 

[MarkF786]

It is a Stingray II

Indeed, I've found other pictures of that model. From the little history I found, the "I" had a 12" radius while the "II" had a 7.5".

70s guitars with 3-bolt necks always seemed odd to me, though I imagine they work well enough.

 

[Sweat]

OK it is a SR II but a Music Man pre Ernie Ball, so my bad, I thing SR II as the new EBMM model in conjunction with Cory Wong

 

[John C]

Indeed, I've found other pictures of that model. From the little history I found, the "I" had a 12" radius while the "II" had a 7.5".

70s guitars with 3-bolt necks always seemed odd to me, though I imagine they work well enough.

As an FYI Leo Fender actually designed the 3-bolt/microtilt neck attachment toward the end of 1969 - when Leo sold Fender to CBS the contract included a 5-year exclusive consulting deal (which would expire at the beginning of 1970) and a 10-year non-compete (which would expire at the beginning of 1975). The 3-bolt/microtilt was probably the final design Leo and his team the R&D company he founded (CLF Research) did for CBS/Fender.

Around 1973 the 2 founders of the company that would become known as "Music Man" - Forrest White (formerly factory manager at Fender) and Tom Walker (formerly of Fender Sales - and also very dear friend of Ernie Ball and godfather to Sterling Ball) came to their old boss to have him consult on an amp design they had in the works, and also hoping that Leo might invest in the company. Leo completed the consulting gig and did loan White & Walker money which helped them build their amp factory.

In early 1975 - after the non-compete was over - Leo converted his loan to White & Walker into an equity stake in the company and was named president of Music Man; they started shipping amps that year. Leo and his team at the other company worked with Walker & White to develop the first batch of instruments - the StingRay bass and StingRay guitar. Leo expanded his CLF Research company from an R&D shop to a full instrument production company and did the instruments as an OEM supplier (so Leo was basically selling the instruments to himself since he was a partner at Music Man). All the Leo-era Music Man instruments used the 3-bolt/microtilt neck attachment - but if you look closely at them the MM instruments have a longer neck heel and deeper neck pocket as they were specifically designed to use the 3-bolt neck (while Fender had retrofitted it to the Stratocaster design, and also to the Telecaster for the expanded Tele models introduced in 1972). The Sabre bass and original Sabre guitar designs followed in early 1978.

It's been detailed here that Leo had a falling out with Walker & White, resigned as president and withdrew his equity from the partnership in 1978 - but continued to produce the MM instruments through part of 1979 - again it's been discussed on here before that Leo shipped out somewhere between 2,000 and 2,500 instruments with defective necks. Without going down the "he said/he said" rabbit hole about the cause of this too deeply that ended the contract for CLF Research to make Music Man instruments. And of course by 1980 Leo and George Fullerton had designed the G&L instruments and were producing them at the CLF Research factory (without any defective necks). And G&L also used the 3-bolt/microtilt neck attachment (again with longer neck heels and deeper neck pockets) from their introduction until the company that bought G&L upon Leo's death changed them to a 4-bolt neck attachment circa 1997/98.