Musicman Stingray 1 guitar

[TwAn]

Hi guys,

this guitar is for sale in Belgium.

http://muziek.2dehands.be/markt/muz_instr/elektrische-gitaar/11869152-music-man-stingray-1-1978.html

Can anyone give me some details on this instrument? What's a good price for this guitar???

Thanks!!
TwAn.

 

[Colin]

Interesting piece of history, I think there was a Sabre guitar as well?

Colin

 

[John C]

You don't see many of these around any more; I can answer a few questions but unfortunately I can't help with a current fair price.

First, Colin's easy question - yes, you're remembering correctly, there was also a Sabre guitar back in the day.

TwAn - the Stingray guitar was produced by MusicMan during it's original ownership of Leo Fender, Forrest White and Tom Walker. The Stingray guitar came out a year or two after the Stingray bass and was MusicMan's first guitar model. These beasts had odd active electronics. The "I" means it has a 12" radius (and a "II" would indicated a 7.5" radius). The dealer where I got my first Fender back in 1979 was also a MusicMan dealer - I remember these as being pretty heavy, just like the Strats and Teles of the day. I never played one plugged in, so I can't dredge anything out of my memory about how they really sounded.

The guitars are far closer to the early G&L guitars than anything EBMM produced. Long story short, Leo also had a company called "CLF Research"; although Leo had the most shares in MusicMan, the guitars were actually produced by CLF Research, sold to MusicMan, who in turn sold them to the dealers. Leo had a falling out with his other partners and left MusicMan circa late 1979/early 1980. At that point Leo partnered with George Fullerton to design a new line of guitars (G&L Guitars) while continuing to produce the MusicMans. He ran G&L Guitars out of the same factory as CLF Research. MusicMan reported some issues with the CLF Research-produced instruments and terminated the production contract - at which point Leo officially retired the CLF name and continued production and sales activities as G&L Guitars. MusicMan, in the meantime, contracted with Grover Jackson to fix the problem parts and finish production of guitars and basses from left-over CLF parts. See this link to a site run by a free-lance writer who's pieces appear in Vintage Guitar magazine:

http://www.ggjaguar.com/sr1.htm

MusicMan went bankrupt in 1984; Ernie Ball bought the name and designs and put the Stingray Bass (the only model that really sold well) back into production in their old Earthwood factory in SLO; EBMM's designer, Dudley Gimple, came up with all subsequent designs (all the guitars and any bass design except the Stingray).

 

[SteveB]

From what I've read about these guitars, I hope you're interested in it as a collectible and not as a guitar you actually want to play.

They were supposedly really treble-heavy sounding guitars which is why they failed commercially.

 

[Colin]

Interesting thank you.

Colin

 

[TwAn]

Thanks a lot for the info! I've learned a lot...

Does anyone know if these guitars actually sound/play good? (@SteveB: what do you mean by "treble-heavy"?) If I'm gonna buy it, I want it to be played every once in a while...

Thanks!

 

[koogie2k]

I was wondering if there was any thoughts into bringing the design back with modern mods. The shape is a bit different......interesting look to it.

 

[John C]

Here is a page with a photo of a Sabre guitar, also from ggjaguar's web site:

http://www.ggjaguar.com/sabre2.htm

It seems like even Leo though the Stingray shape was a bit too radical an used more of a "stratty" shape for the Sabre.

Also, look how similar the Sabre is to the first G&L model, the F-100 (again, thanks to ggjaguar) - the F-100 appears to be an evolution of the Sabre (remember, G&Ls didn't go to a true Strat body until right before Leo died in 1991):

http://www.ggjaguar.com/f-100-ii.htm

It has been far too long since I've seen a Stingray in person (although I did see a couple of Sabres surface here locally last year), but the perspective of the body shape may be a bit distorted by that large triangular control plate.

 

[SteveB]

Thanks a lot for the info! I've learned a lot...

Does anyone know if these guitars actually sound/play good? (@SteveB: what do you mean by "treble-heavy"?) If I'm gonna buy it, I want it to be played every once in a while...

Thanks!

Well, if you've read any of the 'MusicMan History' posts where Big Poppa chimed in.. old Leo was hard of hearing and consequently you couldn't make an instrument bright enough for his ears. So, the StringRay guitars were treble heavy because of his condition.

I've never played one so I can't tell you if they sound any good... perhaps Big Poppa can?

 

[bobpriv]

Sound of Stingray guitar

I own two. One is a Cream colored model made in 1977, the other is a sunburst made in 1976.

The play and sound fabulous. Both are made of ask. They have mure sustain and are beefier than the common strat, due in part the dense ash bodies, active electronics and high output humbuckers.

They are also very powerful guitars. I also have a Les Paul (1981) and compared to the Paul it is equally powerful, maybe even a bit more. Brighter as well, but not nearly as bright as my 1983 Smith-designed Stratocaster.

There is a bright switch which can makes it sound very bright with tremendous presence that really cuts through.

Unlike most guitars, they have active electronics which takes a bit of getting used to. The normal position for the Volume, Bass and Treble knobs is half way. From their you can alter the tone or volume in either direction. If you just peak out the knobs, like you might on a strat, it will surely sound too bright with an overly powerful low end.

With a fresh battery in the guitar (it takes a 9v battery to run the active preamp) a full setting on the volume control will push most amps into ovedrive.

As far as these not being well received, I'm not so sure of that. They were ahead of their time in a era when most everyone wanted to play either a strat, tele, Paul or ES335.

The Stingray also have some other interesting features.

First, their were two versions, the model II and the model II. They were identical except for the fretboard radius. The Model I has a flatter fretboard more prefered by slide players. The Model II has a rounder fretboard very simliar to a stratocaster.

The bridge is a heavy heavy chromed covered brass piece. Sometime in 1977, Music Man started making them with machined brass nuts, instead of bone. My earlier Stingray has the bone nut.

Where they messed up was in the pickup control switch. The Stingray had a 4-position rotary knob. The position selected either pickup alone, both pickups in phase or both out of phase. Their was also a rocker switch used for the brightness control. This was not very popular.

The Sabre was introduced circa 1977, correcting these mistakes. The 4-position rotary switch was changed to a conventional 3-position selection switch. There was also a separate phase/out of phase switch and brightness switch.

I find this instrument is ideal for any blues setting as I can get a thin sound of approaching a tele, a more powerful strat sound, or fatten it up to a more SG or even a Paul sound, albeit a little brighter than the Gibsons.

I have also used it in a more traditional country and rock settings without any problems.

Hearing one through a 1970's Musicman amp is a real treat.

The ash body is heavy, more like a Les Paul, although I have heard about some made in alder which would be lighter.

I like to think of this as a transition guitar between the Telecaster/Stratocatser and the Gibson solid bodies.

Leo Fender said at one time, that the Stingray was where he thought the Stratocaster should have evolved to. I'm not sure I agree with his analysis, but I think he has a point as the Stingray is definitely a stratocaster moved up the technology ladder. In the Stingray, Leo tried to incorporate many new features not around when he designed the Strat in the ealy 1950's.

It is a wonderful piece of Leo Fender history.