O/T-Amp questions-Long-winded post

[ptg]

Sorry in advance for the long post...

Mods - hope this is okay...

Went shopping for an amp after not needing one for years. I use my fretless SR for about 80% of what I'm doing with a blues band. Just going to be playing local clubs.

My main problem is that most of the part numbers don't match the manufacturers' web sites. So, I really can use some advice from you all.

After viewing the limited choices, I've narrowed it down to 2 options:

G&K 700RB-II head with either a 410SBX or 410GLX (Gold) cab (480 w @ 4 ohm, 320w @ 8 ohm) (4-10" speakers)

Eden NC410SA 250 w @ 4ohm combo with 4-10" speakers

Bunch o' questions:


Have any of you had a good or bad experience with either of these 2 set ups?

The Eden is made especially for Sam Ash, so the exact specs aren't on their site, only on Sam Ash's site. It has a suprisingly nice tone and power, even though it has less wattage. Is 250 watts enough? I'm playing with drums, keys and one guitar. It's less versatile as far as EQ (3-band) goes, but is 62 lbs and less expensive than the G&K.

The G&K has a lot more features, (4 band EQ, filters and bi-amp) but is more expensive and heavier. Do I need all that? I've heard the gold speakers are brighter in a club setting, though it was hard to tell at the store. Does anyone know the difference between the 2 cabs?

Thanks everyone for your help! Any suggestions or comments at all would be appreciated!

 

[ptg]

Nobody? Anybody?

 

[bovinehost]

Well, I hate to post just to say, "I have no idea", but I have no idea. Never used either and while lots of people love Edens, I've never cared for the amps.

 

[oddjob]

250 for a small club where eveyone watches their volume is fine but doesn't give you a ton of room to play. I hate gigging out with anything less than 400 (perfer 500 and above - but then we tend to get loud as the night goes on).

I like the SBX cabs over the gold line, tighter sound and hold together better (the golds, can be real overkill on top end) - I like the Neos (much lighter) and the RBH over the SBX (RBH would be killer with the fretless).

Had an Eden Metro for a few weeks. They are cool amps but they and their bretheren always seem a bit squashed (read as compressed) to me. I liked them but never got the sound I wanted. But honestly, use your own ears - I know many that love Eden (and it has to be for some reason, I guess) so you might to.

Honestly from a power standpoint, it is always better to have too much than too little. Headroom is key. Don't buy based just on power, but that should be taken into consideration along with tone YOU like, amp features, weight you can tolerate, $$$, etc.

 

[oddjob]

Oh, general difference between the speakers is the SBX is a sealed box (no port) with paper cones. Depending on the when the cab was made and its type I believe the SBX handles more power (I think the newest SBXs handle 600 or 800 watts vs 400 for the GLX - both in the 4x10 config). The golds are the aluminum coned and are front ported - VERY bright - they remind me of the old Hartkes.

The SBX line, I believe, has also been discontined or replaced by the RBX line (RBX are front ported... so the SBXs are older cabs - but there could be some good deals to be had if you don't mind that)

 

[tombboy]

No MB to try?

 

[ptg]

Thanks, oddjob, for the advice! Yes, I figured that gold were more like the Hartke which is way too bright for me. Since the RBX aren't around for me to hear, I think the SBX may have to do. Hopefully, they'll be a killer with the fretless as well.

Tomboy, I have tried the MB. They are nice but a lot more money. They have the (lack of) weight issue in their favor, but while they sound a little better, to my ears they don't sound 60% better pricewise.

And thanks, Jack, for the "I have no idea." I'm always honored when you answer any of my posts, even with a shrug of the shoulders!

 

[peterd79]

Well... i might be a little late to the party but i've been having an on going conversation with a friend of mine about this. I am an active musician at my church and have been very involved in helping fellow band members pick out their gear.

I've never had any experiences with Eden in a live situation, i've heard a few and they sounded fairly decent; however, i wouldn't want to take it out with me to a club.

Ampeg, as much as i tried to convince a member of the band not to get an Ampeg Combo he did it anyway. He's returned it about 4-5 times, and is still completely unhappy with it. There is no defined tone to the amp and has completely let him down.

GK... I cannot say enough positive things about this company and their products. I've used just about everything in their line and I've never been disappointed. Everything from the Backline 600 ("bottom of the line") to their high end 2001RB is amazing. Solid as can be and light weight. The BLX 410 is just as impressive and the BLX 810 will provide enough power to melt the room.

So in short i think anyone would be happy with the GK... and let me also state that in no way am i affiliated with GK or any other company. Just my experience speaking and hopefully you'll find it helpful...

 

[ptg]

Thanks, PeterD79!

I'm probably going to go with the GK. All I need to do is to make sure it fits in my car and that my bad back can get it in there! Boy, am I old!

Looking forward to buying it!

 

[jlepre]

I have the Nemesis 250 210 combo which is similiar to the Eden combo minus 2 speakers? I know this sounds weird, but the 210 combo has been a pleasant surprise for me. I bought it originally to use for home practice and rehearsals. Then I tried it in a small club setting with 2 guitars and drums and it shocked the #$%# out of me! I have since used this setup in medium rooms with the same result! My drummer can't believe it's only 250 watts and I use it with no PA support. I have a wireless setup so I can walk to the back of the club and it's amazing how it cuts the mix!

 

[ptg]

jlepre, thanks for the info!

Even though I'm leaning towards the GK, it's not set in stone. I'm going to listen to them again before making a final decision.

What to buy, What to buy

 

[oli@bass]

Is 250 watts enough? I'm playing with drums, keys and one guitar.

Sorry, but asking "how many watts are enough to play" is similar to asking "how many HP do I need to drive around".

It totally depends on many contributing factors!

Among them, it depends on how efficient the cab that you plan to use. Efficiency of cabinets is a totally underrated factor, but is actually to key to the answer question "how many watts do I need to be as loud as X". And to build a well sounding cab that is efficient as well is very hard to acheive!

Cab efficiency is measured in dB/1 Watt at a distance of 1M.
AFAIK, if one cab is rated 98dB/W and another is rated 101dB/W, the first will need double the power to sound equally loud as the second one.

However, as many will state, perceived loudness is also very dependent on sound of the cab not only the measured loudness. MarkBass, for example, sounds much louder than similar rated amp/cab combination. It cuts through at the proper frequencies. You need less wattage.

IMO, you really need to try an amp in order to know whether it will work for you or not.

 

[Jodizzle]

Well... i might be a little late to the party but i've been having an on going conversation with a friend of mine about this.

What's it been ?? Like, A month or so??
thanks for your insight!