Opinions on guitar DI's and stuff

[floyd99]

Hi guys

I mostly do theatre shows, and occasionally I get asked to DI my guitar, which I refuse. I have a really nice 100w hand made amp, it sounds great and cost me a fortune..

So if I did want to DI.. and continue using my amp.. two issues are faced:
1. Disipating the speaker load
2. Emulating the speaker

I'm thinking the following might work:

1. THD HotPlate. Either unplugging the internal speaker entirely (if that's what's required), or plug internal speaker into the hotplate speaker output and dial back the level for personal monitoring

2. Behringer GI100 guitar DI, plugged into the Hotplate's LINE OUT, with the cabinet sim turned on. Or, a Hughes & Kettner Red Box doing the same thing. Then off to the PA.

I've never used these products and don't know if the above is the best way to achieve the scenario. I mention the Behringer GI100 because it's extremely cheap. Anyone got opinions?

So.. with the above, i'm hoping the end result is, I still get my amp's tone, I can unplug the speaker entirely if needed without causing damage, and the DI takes care of emulating the speaker.

Appreciate thoughts!

Cheers
Dave

 

[beej]

I've got the Behringer- I use it with my piezo when I'm playing acoustic gigs. But I don't think it'd be useful to run an amp through the board.

A lot of guys swear by the Palmer speaker simulators, PDI-03 or PDI-09. As you still want to hear your amp, you wouldn't need an additional load box. Sounds like that might be the ticket.

I don't know enough about them, but there's plenty of info about them on some of the other forums.

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I always prefer to DI than Mic. My Line 6 amp has a superb sounding DI. Takes the guesswork out of mic placement and gives a constant sound.

 

[wolfbone07]

I had a theater gig last year. It was my first time; it was a ton a work to get my reading chops up to the next level, but it was well worth it. I used my Tech21 Trademark30's SansAmp XLR out. It was a great sound! For $150 you can get a used one. I highly recommend it. You get to be DI'd and have control of tone shaping options.

 

[DavidOfOz]

I have one of those Behringer GI100 guitar DIs. (I got it because it was cheap and I needed a DI in a hurry for a recording project!)

I used it live once in a small venue: Guitar plugged into GT8 which plugged into the GI100 DI. From the DI, the signal split to PA and (from memory) to my amp. The amp served only as personal foldback. I didn't use the cabinet simulation (enough of that happening in the GT8!). I never did get to hear what the guitar sounded like front-of-house, but I got plenty of positive comments afterwards.

 

[floyd99]

I've got the Behringer- I use it with my piezo when I'm playing acoustic gigs. But I don't think it'd be useful to run an amp through the board.

A lot of guys swear by the Palmer speaker simulators, PDI-03 or PDI-09. As you still want to hear your amp, you wouldn't need an additional load box. Sounds like that might be the ticket.

I don't know enough about them, but there's plenty of info about them on some of the other forums.

Sounds like you're using the normal DI (silver one). i'm talking about the red coloured guitar DI.

Palmer products aren't widely available in Australia and I think would be expensive.

Re. the load box - I may want to still hear the amp, but in some cases I may not. I'd like the versatility of the choice depending on the situation.

 

[floyd99]

I had a theater gig last year. It was my first time; it was a ton a work to get my reading chops up to the next level, but it was well worth it. I used my Tech21 Trademark30's SansAmp XLR out. It was a great sound! For $150 you can get a used one. I highly recommend it. You get to be DI'd and have control of tone shaping options.

Have you got a URL link or something? I had a look on SansAmp site but don't know which product you're referring to.

I love theatre. I've got a couple of other small band things on the side, but theatre is basically what I do. (when it comes to music that is... not enough work doing that to make a living LOL.. so yes I have a day job!)

I just love the variety of it, and the atmosphere/environment. There's nothing that is the same as playing in a pit. I've always had a fascination for it - i'm a theatrical lighting designer as well... so outside of work, theatre is my life pretty much.

Ideally I would prefer to use my own amp, which is why I've thought of the THD and GI100 scenario. I spent a lot of money on it and I like the tone. Added to that, I hate having to rely on audio guys (who in theatre are a mile away and we can't see them) to provide my foldback.. and they're so busy working with a zillion radio mic's that a request from the guitarist for a small change might take days, as it's not high on their list.

 

[beej]

Sounds like you're using the normal DI (silver one). i'm talking about the red coloured guitar DI.

Yep, you're right. I have the silver one. My bad, dude.

 

[wolfbone07]

Link to the Tech21 Trademark30:TECH 21 NYC - TRADEMARK 30

Try it. You'll like it.

 

[DrKev]

I have a Behringer GDI-21 which I use primarily as a distortion box but as an amp modelling DI I'm very, very happy with it. Great for recording too. In terms of bang for the buck, I don't think anything can touch it.

 

[floyd99]

Link to the Tech21 Trademark30:TECH 21 NYC - TRADEMARK 30

Try it. You'll like it.

cheers wolf... ah i didnt realise it was an amp

i'd prefer not to buy another amp.

 

[floyd99]

I have a Behringer GDI-21 which I use primarily as a distortion box but as an amp modelling DI I'm very, very happy with it. Great for recording too. In terms of bang for the buck, I don't think anything can touch it.

cheers kev.. i dont want amp modelling. as i've said, i want to use what i've already got.

i can see the benefits of using amp modellers in certain situations, but personally i just think that i've got this fantastic tube amp, why not use it.. why model something when i've got one! seems stupid to have an AU$4000 amp sitting here and instead use a $100 modeller. That just makes no sense to me.

 

[DrKev]

seems stupid to have an AU$4000 amp sitting here and instead use a $100 modeller.

GDI-21 costs a lot less than that!! It's an incredible little box, but yes I see your point. Of course, sometimes, in some venues, we may not have much a choice.

Actually, if you had a line out or effects loop on the amp you could just use an outboard multiband EQ and try to model the speaker characteristics yourself, sending the output of the EQ to the board. Jensen and Celestion have their frequency response curves online - just try dialing them into, say, a 7-band EQ and you'll be pleasantly surprised at how good it can sound.

Failing that, and what I do all the time, is run the amp just loud enough for use as a monitor and then mic it up. If you're one of the "must go to 11 for my tone" crowd, you are now, possibly, at the point of realising that 100W is way to much sometimes. Heck, most 15W tube amps when dimed will be way to loud in a lot of places.

 

[floyd99]

GDI-21 costs a lot less than that!! It's an incredible little box, but yes I see your point. Of course, sometimes, in some venues, we may not have much a choice.

Actually, if you had a line out or effects loop on the amp you could just use an outboard multiband EQ and try to model the speaker characteristics yourself, sending the output of the EQ to the board. Jensen and Celestion have their frequency response curves online - just try dialing them into, say, a 7-band EQ and you'll be pleasantly surprised at how good it can sound.

Failing that, and what I do all the time, is run the amp just loud enough for use as a monitor and then mic it up. If you're one of the "must go to 11 for my tone" crowd, you are now, possibly, at the point of realising that 100W is way to much sometimes. Heck, most 15W tube amps when dimed will be way to loud in a lot of places.

Thanks Kev,
My amp does have an effects loop, can't remember if it has a line out. But with the fx loop, that is before the power stage, so we would lose all the goodness those valves are doing.

Your second option is what I'm currently doing. I like to run the amp around half, and I use a volume pedal. I have a 100w because previously i used a 40w and found it would start breaking up once it got hot and that drove me crazy.. so I got a 100w simply for the head room.. if i want overdrive, then i use a pedal - i don't want the amp doing it for me Nothing worse than trying to play something clean & funky, and the amp is breaking up turning the funk into a pseudo blues!

It's probably also worth mentioning, my amp has no overdrive channel. It's purely clean.. so i'm not running at levels that need to push the valves into overdrive.

 

[DrKev]

I hate having to rely on audio guys (who in theatre are a mile away and we can't see them) to provide my foldback.. and they're so busy working with a zillion radio mic's that a request from the guitarist for a small change might take days, as it's not high on their list.

But if you are at all prepared not to use the speaker at all, as you suggest in your first post, you still rely on the audio guys controlling your foldback, even if it sounds just like your amp. The tone means nothing if you can't hear yourself but the sound guys can't make the adjustments when you need.

Provided they don't mind your amp on stage, as a physical box that takes up space, I don't think you need to change the current setup. Otherwise, you don't have a choice but to look at amp modelling. Or have I missing something?

I'd love to know why they want you to DI. They still have a signal that they'll trim, EQ and mix. What difference does it make if you mic or DI? The way you are now may even save them work, as they don't have to worry about you as much.

 

[Slingy]

Usually a direct sound from an amplifier is mixed with miced signal to give the sound more attack. Since you wont be micing, I'd think the hotplate plus redbox would be a good solution. I think the only guys going direct to pa without an amp are some Pod users and acoustic players. Playing without a monitor just sounds weird to me. Not sure I could get used to that.

 

[floyd99]

Thanks guys.

Yes Kev, you make some valid points. I think leaving it the way it is probably is the safest and easiest option.

I have had a couple of instances where space is of concern and in those circumstances maybe I need to look at the alternatives. But, as both you and I have suggested, that's where the reliance factor comes in.. and the amp would need to physically be elsewhere, and rely on monitors of some kind.

Things came to head at a show recently where we were on stage but had to come on and off - so everything was wireless (including the drum mics), in ear monitors, and no amps on stage. The amps were backstage mic'd up. That posed a problem because having live mic's back stage was problematic. Granted this was a rare circumstance.. but it got me thinking. It was nothing short of a nightmare and sounded terrible for us on stage (the FOH was great apparently).

I suspect I might come up against this at a show soon - as the drumkit will be electronic and it's a rhythm section only band - so I'll in effect be the only 'live' mic.. everything else will be DI'd. Guess I'm just anticipating the question being asked. In such a small venue, the sound guys would love to get rid of the live mic's, DI everything and just throw a couple of foldback wedges or even headphones at us.
Personally I have issue with that anyway - I hate FOH guys having the ability to pull down a fader and the whole band literally disappears.... kinda destroys the ambience of having a live band, we might as well be clicked. I've had this argument many a time, particularly as the audio guys always want to stick us in a back room or leave the orchestra pit covered up so they have exactly that level of control. I've seen a number of professional musicals and unless you read the show programme, you wouldn't even realise the band was live as it really does sound "too good". So disappointing.

But, I digress!!!!!

 

[decosteonline]

johnny a. has a great live sound and goes direct. this link may help.

Recording | Johnny A. | Live

 

[floyd99]

crikey, that's what i call a lot of effort. interesting read!