Original JP6 Pickup Troubleshooting

[RRMKVII]

Hi everyone,
Long time reader, first post…

I have a 2002 JP6, which has the custom Petrucci pickups based on the Steve’s Special and Air Norton. I tend to swap pickups out just for the variety… At this point, I’d like to go back to stock for a while. I noticed that something sounds off with my bridge pickup (the one based on the SS) and I’m trying to do some trouble shooting, because I t seems to be missing a lot of fullness. I have to turn the presence way down to get a tone that is useable, albeit still lacking the fullness I was expecting. Being that these pickups are not production, I don’t really want to just give up on them…

The wires are color connected correctly, solder joints- double checked and they were good. I pulled it back out for visual inspection. It looks ok. I put it on my multimeter and in series it reads 11.87 and split it reads roughly 5.9 ish on each coil.

So I have two questions. Does anyone have this older pickup to sort of confirm that my numbers are in the range to be expected? And if they are in the range, any thoughts on what might be going on?

To be fair, I know that my ear could be just really used to what I had in before, which was an Illuminator. But, I have set this guitar down for a week to try and forget the sound. Now that I have come back, it still feels off.

Appreciate any input, even if it is just “hey man, maybe your ears don’t jive with those pickups anymore.” I just want to make sure I’m not missing anything.

Other info, I like to go for a thrashy sound sometimes and a proggy sound sometimes. I use a Boogie Mark VII head or a 5150 3 50 watt head through Mesa cabs. Don’t tend to boost.

Thanks in advance!
Rod

 

[racerx]

Hey Rod welcome to the forum and sorry your first post is about some trouble. I don't have much to add other than asking troubleshooting questions that might help someone to better direct you.

When you say it lacks fullness, does that mean it sounds like something is broken or exceptionally unusual? Or more of a subtle difference than what you remember? If the first, what happens if you drop in one of the 'other/aftermarket' pickups - does it behave as expected? I ask because it could help identify whether or not the issue is with the pickup or potentially a bad pot/switch/etc. If the aftermarket pickup sounds as expected but the JP pickup sounds "broken", then maybe the pickup was damaged or degaussed over time. You could also try reaching out to the DiMarzio support folks, explain your situation, and see if they could take a look or make recommendations. Their support team has been generally helpful and friendly in my travels.

Good luck (and post some pics!)

 

[RRMKVII]

Thank you! This is exactly what I’m looking for.

It lacks fullness in that it def does not sound like I remember. It reminds me of the lack of fullness when pickups are not in phase. Though this isn’t what is happening as I confirmed wiring.

I had not thought of it being degaussed. That seems like a good place to start.

Will get pics posted in the morning, thanks for your input!!

 

[DrKev]

Those number are in the ballpark I'd expect. The DiMarzio D-Sonic is listed as 11.96 kΩ and I'd expect +/- 5% variance around that.

Degaussing is unlikely (in fact it's kind of a myth). They're ceramic magnets in there underneath the coils lying on the baseplate. Those things will shatter and break before they lose any magnetism and you'd have to get it close over 250ºF to lose any magnetism and that's reversible by simply cooling it back down. And there'd be obvious signs of damage to the pickup and/or guitar. (And FWIW, AlNiCo have even higher temperature resistance and greater shock resistance).

If the overall output seems good, you're probably fine and your ears just may not like it.

 

[Iperfungus]

I had an Ibanez JPM100 P4 many years ago, with Steve's Special and Air Norton (or maybe Norton Lite, do not remember).
To be honest, I ended selling the guitar for another one when I simply discovered that it had a terrible tone when straight connected to an amplifier.
That guitar/pickups had a good rendition when connected to rack systems only.
And, to be more honest, I do not like at all pickups like Tone Zone for the same reason.
So, since measurements looks correct, I assume you simply don't like the pickups and I can agree on that!

 

[RRMKVII]

Those number are in the ballpark I'd expect. The DiMarzio D-Sonic is listed as 11.96 kΩ and I'd expect +/- 5% variance around that.

Degaussing is unlikely (in fact it's kind of a myth). They're ceramic magnets in there underneath the coils lying on the baseplate. Those things will shatter and break before they lose any magnetism and you'd have to get it close over 250ºF to lose any magnetism and that's reversible by simply cooling it back down. And there'd be obvious signs of damage to the pickup and/or guitar. (And FWIW, AlNiCo have even higher temperature resistance and greater shock resistance).

If the overall output seems good, you're probably fine and your ears just may not like it.

Thank you for this. Going by what you’re saying, I’m close numbers wise to the D Sonic, but mine is a variant on the Steve’s Special. That one is listed at 18.21. I just don’t know if by being a variant if I should be close to that 18.21 figure. Does this impact your answer at all?

Thanks again!

 

[RRMKVII]

I had an Ibanez JPM100 P4 many years ago, with Steve's Special and Air Norton (or maybe Norton Lite, do not remember).
To be honest, I ended selling the guitar for another one when I simply discovered that it had a terrible tone when straight connected to an amplifier.
That guitar/pickups had a good rendition when connected to rack systems only.
And, to be more honest, I do not like at all pickups like Tone Zone for the same reason.
So, since measurements looks correct, I assume you simply don't like the pickups and I can agree on that!

Thanks for sharing this, I’m leaning more and more towards the idea that my ears have changed and I don’t like them anymore. I’m a bit surprised that my ears are remembering their sound SO differently. But it s looking that way now.

 

[RRMKVII]

Also, here is the guitar we are talking about. I bought it new in 2002. Been my #1 since then. Nothing quite like it.

 

[DrKev]

Thank you for this. Going by what you’re saying, I’m close numbers wise to the D Sonic, but mine is a variant on the Steve’s Special. That one is listed at 18.21. I just don’t know if by being a variant if I should be close to that 18.21 figure. Does this impact your answer at all?

Thanks again!

Oops, sorry about that, my mistake.

But no, both coils measure about the same and add up correctly to the full series resistance. If it was faulty I would expect one coil to be off, or if two coils were off I doubt the would read so close to each other. That suggests to me the pickup is functioning as constructed.

I managed to find a Reverb auction where somebody was selling 2001 Petrucci custom wound pickups, with photos of the multimeter measurements.

PHWB2PKL (bridge) measures 13.52 kΩ
PHNB1PKL (neck) measure 11.92 kΩ

DiMarzio John Petrucci 6 BHNP1B & BHWP2BKL Direct Mount Humbuckers Set | Reverb

Let me start by saying that some times despite your best efforts, issues can arise during a transaction. As I state below in the " please read " section. Just drop me message. If we work together we can resolve the issue and make this a smooth deal which is always my goal. DiMarzio John Petrucci ...

reverb.com

Note that both pickups have Allen screw polepieces on both coils (and that's the case in every set and 2001 JP6 for sale that I can see right now). Yours don't. Do you have a neck pickup in the bridge and something else in the neck?
Have a look at the labels on the base of the pickups.

Are you measuring the pickup installed in the guitar or disconnected? 13.52 kΩ measured in circuit with two 500 kΩ pots should be between 12.6 kΩ and 12.9 kΩ allowing for variation in the pot values.

 

[RRMKVII]

I appreciate the thorough answer and so quickly at that!
Your logic makes sense, I follow you. I measured resistance with pickups out of the guitar.
My picture does not have the stock pickups in it. The ones I have are with the Allen heads on both coils. Sorry for the confusion.

Mine are pictured for clarification. Last week when I had the stock ones in, I was certain to get them in the right positions as they are not the same height, I’m confident that was done correctly.

With regard to output, it appears that my neck and bridge pickups measure pretty close though. Neck is 11 and bridge 11.87
The listing you dug up was super helpful, thanks for finding that!

As I’m reading your responses though, I’m really thinking that I just don’t have a preference for these pickups anymore, which is fine, I just needed some peace of mind that there wasn’t something wrong or that I missed something.

Appreciate your time spent here. Nice way to start my forum membership!

 

[Iperfungus]

To test pickups, just connect the guitar to your amp...give it some volume....and tap pickups poles with something metallic, like a screwdriver.
Select pickups with the switch and test on any switch position: if pickups are working correctly, you'll ear a "toc toc" noise by touching each pole and according to possible splitting options (depending on the guitar, of course).

Then also check probes wires of your multimeter: if one is about to break, reading could be not so precise...this happened to me 2 days ago!
New probes, new life!

 

[RRMKVII]

Thank you again… yes, I do have sound from both coils… You have been very helpful. I will actually try to get another meter to test it. It seems that everything might be ok, but now it’s in my head that something is not right lol.

To test pickups, just connect the guitar to your amp...give it some volume....and tap pickups poles with something metallic, like a screwdriver.
Select pickups with the switch and test on any switch position: if pickups are working correctly, you'll ear a "toc toc" noise by touching each pole and according to possible splitting options (depending on the guitar, of course).

Then also check probes wires of your multimeter: if one is about to break, reading could be not so precise...this happened to me 2 days ago!
New probes, new life!

 

[Iperfungus]

Thank you again… yes, I do have sound from both coils… You have been very helpful. I will actually try to get another meter to test it. It seems that everything might be ok, but now it’s in my head that something is not right lol.

Don't worry.
Guitar players have the same heads and ears, when it's about guitars!

 

[RRMKVII]

Don't worry.
Guitar players have the same heads!

YES hahaha!

 

[HouseholdScavenger]

Hi All
Old post but just for the record I have the same guitar and also had problems with the bridge pickup. In my case it was clear that the pickup was broken since the volume was VERY low and the reading between green and red was 7.9k, and between black and white I had no reading at all.

Of course I had to take the pickup apart to see what had happended and it turned out that one of the the coil wires was broken. The wire is incredible thin but still seem able to take some handling. I attached some nerdy pictures for anyone interested and as you see both coils have black and white wires connected to joints. A damaged joint should be possible to repair but once you take off the protecting tape around the coil you are probably doomed.

First time post for me too. Very thankful for all information I have received in the forum.

 

[GWDavis28]

Nice job!! Are you going to put new pups in?

Glenn |B)

 

[HouseholdScavenger]

Hi Glenn

I have already replaced it with a CrunchLab and now I am considering to replace the neck pickup too with a Liquifire which would transform my JP6 to a more modern version. Not sure what sound difference it would make but worth doing just for fun.

Interesting that two identical pickups on the same guitar model of the same age malfunctions at the same time. But after 20+ years I guess it is hard to complain.

Niklas

 

[GoKart Mozart]

Hi Glenn

I have already replaced it with a CrunchLab and now I am considering to replace the neck pickup too with a Liquifire which would transform my JP6 to a more modern version. Not sure what sound difference it would make but worth doing just for fun.

Interesting that two identical pickups on the same guitar model of the same age malfunctions at the same time. But after 20+ years I guess it is hard to complain.

Niklas

I really dig the Liquifire; I put one in the neck position of another guitar after really liking it in my JP6.

 

[HouseholdScavenger]

Promising to hear and I will definetely go ahead with this.