Ot soundcard (external) tip please

[strummer]

Inspired by Petes kitchen table recordings I started messing around yesterday. I quickly realized I want to record on my lap top (pc) and I need an external sound card. Usb 2.0 or firewire? Brand? I want to get a good sounding one, and I guess Cubase is what I will use no the computer.
Any and all recommendations welcome

 

[ExLurker]

Be careful with what you choose. I had huge latency problems with my old lap top and USB. I've heard that firewire is the way to go, much faster transference of info into the laptop. I dont currently use a laptop, preferring to use my Delta 66 soundcard into the PC. I'm sure somebody with some more up to date info will chime in...

 

[Dead-Eye]

Firewire is better, but also more expensive. USB 2.0 should have sufficient bandwith if you only record one instrument at a time. I wouldn't go anywhere near anything that uses USB1 though.

 

[Hellboy]

Definately firewire if your computer has it. Depending abit on what you need and how you´ll use it but I´d say RME Fireface 800, MOTU Traveler (or 828 mk II/UltraLite) or Apogee Track2. Good D/A - A/D converters and fine mic pre´s as well. M-Audio FastTrackPro and Firewire 410 works fine but are much cheaper and converters are nowhere as good. There are other cheaper ones as well but if you are somewhat serious about recording, then go with the RME, MOTU or Apogee stuff.

//Jan

 

[oli@bass]

With all respect to Jan.... but... forget that old "the converters are not as good as X" argument.

Look, pretty much everything digital (thus excluding mics, analog mixing desks and monitors) you can buy today for home recording runs circles around what was considered pro gear twenty years ago. I have to know. I've been there. (man, I'm old). And spent more or less all of what I earned on gear back then, just to fool around a bit. What a stupid mistake!

Get a M-Audio FastTrack Pro now and start doing your stuff.

If you start to get more serious about recording and are really concerned about recording quality, then buy something better then -- it will be cheaper and better that what you can buy now. Guaranteed!

 

[MrMusashi]

buy firewire card and make sure it got digital in.. then you can expand with better mic preamps later
m-audio fw410 is a good choice.. presonus makes good equipment for the price.. all depends on how many ins/outs you need at the same time

ps: avoid vista at all costs!!!!!!!

MrM

 

[INMT]

I'm currently using a Mac G4 laptop with a Tapco Link USB running MOTU Digital Performer 5.
I can record both channels at the same time with no latency issues.
analogmage here on the forum filled me in on that the same interface used with Garage Band I can record and monitor guitar (or) bass with almost no latency. So little infact that it's comfortable to just jam on. He's correct, no problems.

Though this might be useless info to you as your running a PC laptop. I have not seen to many PC laptops that have a fire wire input. Must be a good one.
So I just tried it on my crappy PC from wal mart running Adobe Audition 2.....meh, it's so-so.
Then I tried it with Amplitube 2 as a standalone. Worked just fine.

My personal suggestion go, firewire if you can.

ps: avoid vista at all costs!!!!!!
MrM

+1

 

[Hellboy]

With all respect to Jan.... but... forget that old "the converters are not as good as X" argument.

Look, pretty much everything digital (thus excluding mics, analog mixing desks and monitors) you can buy today for home recording runs circles around what was considered pro gear twenty years ago. I have to know. I've been there. (man, I'm old). And spent more or less all of what I earned on gear back then, just to fool around a bit. What a stupid mistake!

Get a M-Audio FastTrack Pro now and start doing your stuff.

If you start to get more serious about recording and are really concerned about recording quality, then buy something better then -- it will be cheaper and better that what you can buy now. Guaranteed!

Sorry but I don´t agree. The cheap stuff has about zero value on the second hand market. Better stuff does and a good A/D - D/A converter with a decent transformer will always make you happy. And new pro/semi pro level electronic equipment is nowhere near as expencive now as for 20 years ago. I´m not talking about a full blown Protools system here. That is not what I´m saying. What I´m saying is that one should avoid the cheapest equipment out there. Same thing with instruments really. Buy a 350 dollar soundcard and you won´t be able to sell it two years from now. Buy a 1100 dollar soundcard and you will be able to sell it for half the price and you´ll get a much better result and have more fun while recording. That is my opinion. Strummer was asking for a good sounding soundcard. The ones I mentioned sounds good. The cheaper stuff doesn´t sound nowhere near as good. But you shouldn´t buy a Protools HD system..... THAT is a overkill.

Someone wrote that Vista should be avoided if possible. Couldn´t agree more!

//Jan

 

[oli@bass]

Buy a 350 dollar soundcard and you won´t be able to sell it two years from now. Buy a 1100 dollar soundcard and you will be able to sell it for half the price

Your way: Lose 550 USD
My way: Lose 350 USD -- have 200 USD to spend on something made by BP...

My point was, that even the M-Audio Fasttrack Pro sounds better than something double its price two years ago. And there's always going to be something that sounds better in two years than todays best sounding sound card. Just try to minimize your loss.

IMO, for a beginner, keep the cost down, and find out when you really start to think the sound card sounds bad... it also heavily depends on the speakers or headphones you have to listen to your recordings. If they're not top notch, chances are you won't hear the difference between a crappy sound card and a good one.

And if you've been playing loud rock music for a couple of decades like me, chances are you won't hear the difference no matte what


Regarding everything else (non-digital) I'm totally with you: Buy the best you can afford and rather keep it for a couple of years.

 

[strummer]

Ok, thanks guys, lots of useful input here!
Jan, your real choices are too costly for me, mainly because I will not use this product for anything but dicking around If I get a hang of that Cubase stuff I will get myself a big sound card that can handle lots of inputs for recording in a band situation, and then I will want good sound quality, but for now "ok" is what I'm aiming at.
Oli, as you will see now, I am currently very much into your way of thinking, and I find the input very useful, thanks!

SO what do you guys think of the Native Instruments AK1? It is usb 2.0, but it comes with a version of cubase I can use on my vista lap top, something none of the others do. I guess it is just a matter of time, but as I really want to start doing this soon I want to know if the AK1 is just crap or if Native instruments have some kind of good name?

I have also found a Mackie thing that seems very durable for field use, and I do like the mackie mic amps a lot.(I have a mackie console for live mixing)
Mackie - Satellite FireWire Recording System

Anyway, thanks for all the good advice so far, i hope I haven't bored you to tears

 

[strummer]

I have not seen to many PC laptops that have a fire wire input. Must be a good one.



+1

Yep, it is a good one
I will keep the firewire in mind, although as I said in my previous post a usb 2.0 thingie has caught my eye We'll see, when I grow up I'll get a mac to record on

 

[strummer]

buy firewire card and make sure it got digital in.. then you can expand with better mic preamps later
m-audio fw410 is a good choice.. presonus makes good equipment for the price.. all depends on how many ins/outs you need at the same time

ps: avoid vista at all costs!!!!!!!

MrM

Wtf, Vista is what I got, and that's all there is to it I'm afraid Why avoid vista? Does it have some stuff that messes up recording, or is it just that you generally don't like it? This is important, as I really hated XP worse than I dislike Vista...

 

[oli@bass]

Wtf, Vista is what I got, and that's all there is to it I'm afraid Why avoid vista? Does it have some stuff that messes up recording, or is it just that you generally don't like it?

I understood that it eats up a lot of resources, compared to earlier systems. I'm working in an IT company and our directive is to avoid Vista at all costs. (not that I care, I'm on a Mac anyway... )

This is important, as I really hated XP worse than I dislike Vista...

Get a Mac!

 

[oli@bass]

SO what do you guys think of the Native Instruments AK1?

Native Instruments do have good quality products in general, but I've never used the AK1 (just thought about getting one myself). If you get it, look for a bundle with GuitarRig ... you'll want that software anyway sooner or later!

IMO, USB 2.0 is sufficient -- "for now".

Mackie do have good quality stuff as well, and I read raving product reviews about the Satellite System. If its possibilities to you are worth the extra money, then it seems to be a good option. Again, not used myself.

Also to consider: Ease of use and audio drivers. The M-Audio stuff seems to be very good at that, especially the drivers. The Fasttrack Pro was just plug & play without hassle on my Mac, whereas the IK StealthPlug is sort of buggy. Our keyboarder told me that M-Audio is also very well received in the keyboarder scene.


Maybe Jan can shed some light on the quality of the less costly products as well...

 

[strummer]

Native Instruments do have good quality products in general, but I've never used the AK1 (just thought about getting one myself). If you get it, look for a bundle with GuitarRig ... you'll want that software anyway sooner or later!

IMO, USB 2.0 is sufficient -- "for now".

Mackie do have good quality stuff as well, and I read raving product reviews about the Satellite System. If its possibilities to you are worth the extra money, then it seems to be a good option. Again, not used myself.

Also to consider: Ease of use and audio drivers. The M-Audio stuff seems to be very good at that, especially the drivers. The Fasttrack Pro was just plug & play without hassle on my Mac, whereas the IK StealthPlug is sort of buggy. Our keyboarder told me that M-Audio is also very well received in the keyboarder scene.


Maybe Jan can shed some light on the quality of the less costly products as well...

Thanks, Oli, waiting for Janne now

 

[Hellboy]

Thanks, Oli, waiting for Janne now

You´ve got mail, Strummer. In swedish......

You can get a cheap M-Audio interface and you might be happy with it for awhile. Two ways to go really. Either cheap stuff initially and then upgrade. Or get better stuff from start. I know a ton of people that are recording on their computers and all of them wanted better stuff after a rather short amount of time.

First thing if you want to avoid trouble, get a Mac. Vista WILL unfortunately create problems for you. XP was better. I worked on PC computers when I first built the studio I run and I even built several and I got rather good at messing about with PC´s. But it just didn´t work in the long run. Took way to much time to find out what the heck was wrong. I´m on Mac now and I get lots more done with less hassle. I´ve e-mailed you some tips on second hand gear. A/D - D/A converters are not nearly as good on the cheaper stuff. The RME Fireface 800 interface also has a function so that you can use it abit like a "summing mixer" (summeringsmixer). You don´t want to bounce things internally in your computer when doing mixes if you want a decent result.

There are lots of things to say about computers/soundcards/recordings. Someone wrote that it´s important that the soundcard you get has digital in/out. I couldn´t agree less. Much better to stay analog as much as possible and focus on really good D/A - A/D converters. The soundcards that I´ve recommended are good for 24 bits/192 kHz recordings and that will keep you happy for a very long time. M-Audio´s stuff has nowhere near as good converters but 96 kHz is good enough for most people. Me too. But I would not be happy with the converters.

So, according to me, you must decide if you want to think long term or short term. We are bass-players, god damn it(!!), and you´ll notice a greater difference between good and bad quality AD/DA-converters in the lower frequensies than up top. Separation and transparency. Big difference. But I shall not decide what you should get. You have to do that. And we might have different opinions and that is ok indeed. May Santa be with you!! Back to work.

Sincerely//Jan