Rookie question about tremolo types

[Junior]

I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I've asked a few times and haven't got an answer.

I want to know what kinds of tremolo bridges exist and what are their characteristics.

Example: locking, double-locking, floating, non-locking etc.

What does it mean if a tremolo is floating or double locking. I'd also like to know what are all the trmeolo types.

Thank you in advance and I apologize again for anything that I might ave done wrong.

 

[beej]

Junior,

There are lots of variations on tremelo bridges. In a nutshell:

"Floating" just means that there's enough room to lower (dive) and raise (pull up) the tension on the strings. For this to occur there has to physically be room between the bottom of the bridge and the top of the guitar, either by having the trem set off the body on a slight angle, or by having a routed cavity underneath the trem. If a trem is non-floating then you can only dive and not pull up on it.

"Locking" means that the strings are physically clamped. "Double-locking" means they're clamped in two places. Picture the double-locked Floyd Rose - the strings are clamped both at the bridge and at the top of the neck via the locking nut. Whereas the musicman trem is "non-locked".

There are also some cool inovations out there - Don Ramsay's bridge we saw the other day on Luke's guitar that only moves back and forth, not up and down, etc.

 

[Roubster]

Floating Trem means that you can both raise and lower the pitch of a note. Usually the floaters are double locking, which means they have a locking NUT where there are 3 hex screws that you tighten so the strings dont move back and forth, and of course there is a locking system in the bridge where you insert the string and also screw in this movable piece to hold the string in place. If you look at the AXIS it has the double locking system, but it does not float. But of course you can set it up for it to float a but, but floaters usually have a routed cavity beneath the tremolo system so that you can pull up as much as you like untill the stings snap . Single locking is probably just locked at the bridge ? Not sure about that one. Of course there is the vintage tremolo which can also be set up to float a bit. The best one of course is the EBMM vintage tremolo with the locking tuners. You cant go wrong with that. That is why I have decided to replace my Ibnz w/ a double locking floating tremolo, for a Luke model, which also no doubt sounds AMAZING.

 

[beej]

Following up-

In terms of functionality, there are pros and cons to each design.

Double-locking trems are generally considered to be the most stable design for heavy bar work. However they're more of a pain to set up correctly (setting intonation SUCKS), and tuning and string changes are more difficult.

Floating trems are great to pull up notes, however they make it more difficult to tune the entire guitar. As you tune one note, the tension of the system changes and all the other notes go out of tune. So you have to tune, re-tune, etc. until you're there. Also, the system will go out of tune if you break a string. Non-floating trems don't have this problem as the trem isn't really a factor until you start to bend a string or depress the bar; until then the trem is held in place by the body of the guitar.

EBMM's vintage trem design works well in either configuration, as does the Petrucci trem. Having the Schaller locking tuners makes a big difference in a non-locking trem system as well, as there aren't spare string windings that can go slack when you depress the trem. The less spare string length the better for tuning stability.

 

[Junior]

Then again, I'm wondering if the Vintage Tremolo can do what a Floyd Rose can... is the VT capable of trmeolo abusing, dive bombs (is that how they're called?), pulling up a bit etc.

 

[beej]

It's a pretty good system. Not perfect, but really good. Consider that Luke went from a Floyd Rose on the Luke I to the vintage trem on the II. And John Petrucci uses the JP trem that's similar. Good enough for those guys.

On the Luke, the trem is set to float. On the Axis SS, it's set on the body. Both are easy to change- just change the tension of the springs (add/remove springs or tighten/loosen the trem claw) and you can have it float or sit on the body. I have a few of each

Seriously, it depends how much you're going to use the bar. For those Steve Vai types out there, I might say stick to a Floyd. Short of that, a well set up vintage trem is excellent - and much easier to maintain.

(And yeah, they're called dive bombs. Great term.)

 

[glockaxis]

Yes they can----maybe not as extreme a la string warble but pretty close. I'm a convert after having both an Axis and a Luke.

 

[Junior]

Guys, thanks you so much for the advices and info. It's really wonderful to have people like you on the internet, willing to help younger kids like me. I'm really glad.

Now, is the vintage trem on the SUB1 the same as the VT on higher end models? But again, how can you pull it up if it doesn't have any space under the back end of the bridge?

 

[beej]

Most likely, yeah (don't have one in front of me).

To make it float you loosen the spring tension. The bridge then leans forward, off the body of the guitar. E.g. It's still fixed at the pivot point, but is then set at a small angle off the body. Voila, floating bridge, and you can then pull up on it once it's all tuned up.

 

[Junior]

That's so grool ...to anybody who's seen "Mean Girls" "grool" means something

great + cool

I wondered if I could do it on my Strat, but most of the guys told me to take out one of the 3 springs, but I was like "I'll leave it the way it is. The bridge doesn't not stay in tune anyway, so I'll just make it worser, + I may do something that could damage it 'cause I'm still a begginer "

Basically, I've always wanted to have 3 guitars: one humbuckers and single coils (like a Morse ), a bridge like a Floyd rose and rosewood fretboard, one with 3 single coils, maple fretboard and a bridge like a Vintage tremolo (strat like guitar) and one with a rosewood fretboard, 2 humbuckers and a stop-tail (Les Paul like)

 

[beej]

Yeah, it's sooo fetch

There are a couple of things you can do to make your strat stay in tune better, but the best to be to buy an EBMM

Start with the vintage trem. You can crank up the spring tention so it's essentially a hard-tail. Or you can let it float. The floyds are seriously a pain, especially if you're not used to them.

Back to work ...!

 

[Junior]

Well it's not an actual Strat, it's a Squier Affinity ...so, never mind But thank you for the info

...so, I guess the SUB1 is back on the buylist

 

[blackspy]

Well, not to start another debate about the Floyd Rose, but I've used them for almost twenty years ( I think ), and other than initial setup I never have to mess with them at all. Even string changes take, at most, a couple extra minutes. Once done and strings are stretched out I usually never have to tune until the next string change. Minor fine tuning at the most. Incredibly stable tuning, no matter what I do with the bar.

Floating? Put an extra spring in for the low strings and string breakages are much less of a problem, unless you break a low E or A string. The extra spring is usually enough to keep the bridge in place, so the whole thing doesn't go out of whack if you break a high string, which is usually what I end up breaking. Though, I have a guitar with a floating Floyd, I prefer them flush mounted.

Intonation? Buy one of those "The Key" tool's (best thing I ever found for it), and it isn't much more difficult than a hardtail. Without one though, yes it can be a pain.

Most Floyd problems I've seen people having are caused by having them setup improperly, worn out springs, not understanding the zero point idea and spring tension or thinking that their cheap Korean Floyd knockoff was a real one and not understanding how/where they wear out or have trouble.

I agree though, you do need some amount of understanding as to how/why they work the way they do. A hardtail is probably a lot simpler. If you don't need a Floyd for anything, and know for a fact you won't be using a trem, then I certainly would go for a hardtail, or a vintage style trem. The way I play though, I always want one.

Anyhow, just my opinion.

 

[wes23]

good topic btw,

I would like to know if the EBMM Axis can be set up to float? I imagine they can. is it worth while to do so? Has anyone had any experience with it, good/bad? Will ernie ball route the bottom of an Axis by request? are they considering routing out the bottoms on certain Axis models in the future? I like the versitillity of being able to bend up or down. But I suppose bending up isn't that big of a deal, after playing on a les paul all these years, you have no choice but to learn how to bend up!

thanks.

 

[Junior]

Thank you.

What's flush mounting? Is flush that fluffy material? I thought I've seen some under the SUB1 bridge.

 

[blackspy]

Flush, just means it is resting on the body. It can't be pulled back to raise pitch. Like the Axis.

 

[Larry]

flush means mounted flat on the guitar body

Blackspy beat me to it

 

[shuai725]

Hey guys,never try to make AXIS float,thats dangerous.

 

[Larry]

how can it be dangerous

 

[favolos80]

what "The Key" tool is???