Setting up a vintage trem on an Axis SS

[GetTheFunkOut]

I recently bought a second hand Axis Super Sport in Blue Dawn - Awesome sound, awesome colour. My only concern is that I am unable to get the trem to behave properly. It is in very good condition, but the edges of the trem plate where they contact the poles in the body, seem a little worn. I really do mean only a little, whether or not this maybe causing problems, I don't know.

As strange as it seems to me, maybe someone else can explain why, but the guitar stays in tune perfectly with using the tremolo bar, with 3 springs (regardless of whether it is the straight across method, or with two slanted and one straight in the middle.

It is when, with this set up, that bending strings, particularly the G and B strings, that they never return to pitch. Always flat. When you then do a dive bomb on the trem, the strings are then returned to pitch. If I tuned them up after they went flat from bends, after some trem use, they would just be too sharp.

I've tried all sorts. Even using chapstick and graphite shavings in the nut, on the saddles, on the knife edge points of the trem. But this tuning problem still happens. I have tried adjusting amount of springs, but the combo of 3 seems to the best fit. The angled springs seems to make most sense to me for some reason. I have adjusted the trem claw screws back and forth as well as the trem pole pieces in the body.

I'm sure I must be missing something here. I'm normally pretty good with setting up guitars but this one has me a little stumped.

Also, for the record, I am using Super Slinky's 9 11 16 24 32 43, in standard tuning, with the intention of having the trem flat against the body, not at all floating.

Any input from experience or interesting ideas to try would be very welcome!

 

[DrugDM]

Hello. I do not know if this has been answered but it sounds to me like the strings need to be stretched more or the strings are not fully seated in the trem block. For a vintage trem, nothing takes whammy abuse like the Music Man trem and still stays in tune. When my guitar does go out of tune it usually is one of these 2 culprits. Hope this helps.

 

[BrickGlass]

Try some Big Bends Nut Sauce and put it in the nut slots, on the saddles and on the knife edges. Stretch the strings a bit before you play by doing some dive bombs and bends and then retuning a few times. Big Bends has worked the best for me and I've had the same problems as you, the only difference being I keep my bridge floating. Of course you should keep the strings pretty new and a new set of springs is a good idea too. Try the Ernie Ball RPS strings. Those reinforced strings seem to help as well and I highly recommend them.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Thinking out loud here.
If you said that you went up a string size or two, I'd say that the strings were binding in the nut - you are using 9's. The only thing I would do is polish the nut slots using super fine micro mesh wet and dry - the equivalent of 1500 - 2000 - 4000 grade.

I presume you have not wound the string around the tuning pegs - like on Fender guitars - because as you probably know - you just pull the string through the hole in the peg finger tight, then lock n tune- no winds necessary.

The G and the B string huh? They are not wound strings so make sure the knurled locking nut on the tuner is nice and tight

I'm more inclined to agree with what's been said earlier - check the trem block - check the string balls fit snugly in the block - make sure another ball end(s) are not stuck in there too, make sure that there's no crud in the holes

I love this tool and use it a lot... ... New Abrasive Fibreglass Pencil Circuit Board Battery | eBay
I've used it to clean pivot points on trems.

Anyways - I'm "thinked out".
Let us know how your problem is resolved

 

[GetTheFunkOut]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Although the strings are always stretched a lot! And as far as I'm aware, the ball ends are tight enough in the trem block. I've pretty much done everything mentioned here as far as the usual trouble shoots.

Just strange how dive bombing is more than fine on the guitar but it's bends which put it out of tune. As dive bomb back down and up again put those strings back to tune. My only conclusion is that the bending just moves the trem a micro amount to have the knife edges be just slightly binding, just ever so slightly. Of course a wild dive bomb sorts it out, as it returns it up more positively. At least this is the only explanation I can think of.

I used a graphite/chapstick mixture on the nut, saddles and knife edges as an alternative to Nut Sauce. But still doesn't resolve the string bending thing.

I don't even know if a new trem plate is available to buy in the UK, incase this would resolve any issues? Obviously I'd rather not just incase it didn't make a difference at all.

Currently have had the guitar 5 springs and pretty much blocked up like a hardtail these last 2 weeks as I have a lot of guitar work to use it for. But over the Christmas period when I have a bit more time to play with, I will revisit the whole set up again. Any more pointers are very welcome!

 

[noise5150]

This is good info for me too because I just got an SUB AX3 which has the same setup

 

[mnwst]

I had similar issues with my JP6 BFR. I sent it back and after having the nut replaced, did it behave. Another thing, I have my trem setup for dive only. It still works, but I think it "wants" to float, where it can naturally return to zero. Could be the case with your Axis.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I think it's beyond redemption and should be put out to pasture.

As you're in the UK you can send it to the Spudmurphy Home for Decrepit Guitars, and I will look after it.

 

[agt]

When you dive with the trem, you lessen the tension on the strings and then they return to pitch, When you bend, you increase the tension on the strings and they return flat. This asymmetric "ratchet" effect suggests that there is something catching when the strings are pulled tighter. I'm not sure what that implicates, but that is a clue. My suspicion would be the nut slots or, less likely, the bridge saddles.

 

[BrickGlass]

When you dive with the trem, you lessen the tension on the strings and then they return to pitch, When you bend, you increase the tension on the strings and they return flat. This asymmetric "ratchet" effect suggests that there is something catching when the strings are pulled tighter. I'm not sure what that implicates, but that is a clue. My suspicion would be the nut slots or, less likely, the bridge saddles.

I 100% agree with your suspicion. That is why the Big Bends Nut Sauce is the way to go. I've tried the graphite and chapstick route, it just didn't work as well for me, though it does improve the problem and others have had great success with it. And I will say that it isn't going to stay absolutely, perfectly, in tune all the time no matter what, at least not in my experience. It is just about being able to do a bend or a bomb and come back in tune enough that your ear can't hear any out of tune notes. For example, if my B string is reading +1 cent on my tuner and then I do a bend and it is now reading -1 cent, I'm cool with that, even -2 cent and I'm cool with that. The trick to getting them back even closer to where they started is to just wiggle the whammy bar a little bit, but I think this would work better on a floating trem where you can wiggle the pitch up and down a bit. The same "wiggle the bar a little bit" trick works on PRS guitars and on Fender Strats, as well as other guitars, as long as nothing is binding. The binding is almost always in the nut in my experience, but it can be in the knife edges or the saddle, and I've even seen it be in the area where the springs connect to the bridge block or the screw claw.

If you watched me play guitar you would see me do a lot of wiggling of the whammy bar, basically any time there is a break in the song or when I can throw some vibrato on a note with the bar.

Good luck with this problem. It is a very, very frustrating one.