Signal strength question

[jar546]

First off this is not a customer support issue or complaint, just being inquisitive about something that I don't understand. Don't take it negatively or get your panties in a bunch.

Here is what I have noticed since I bought my EB MM SR5 about 2 years ago.

Previous to my fantastic EB, I used a Fender P with passive pickups.

When I bought the SR5 HH I would always plug into the "active" input port on those amps that had a choice. I noticed that it significantly reduced the sound so I started plugging the SR5 into the passive port or did not hit the dB button. Works great that way.

This is what I don't understand:

Why is the signal strength from my passive P bass stronger than my active SR5? This has been obvious with every amp and combo amp that I have ever played both through.

Last night at our gig another bass player sat in and I gave him my P bass to play because he is not used to a 5 string. My compressor was on overtime and the signal strength was significantly higher therefore the volume was much higher.

I just ASSUMED (remember the odd couple) that an active bass would have higher output signal than a passive bass. BTW, the SR 5 gets a brand new 9V battery for every gig so no comments about the battery being a possibility. I don't think this is a problem, just curious as to how this all works and why.

Thanks in advance for a hopefully technical answer.

 

[Rick Auricchio]

Are your pickups too low on the SR5, or too high on the P? A few mm makes a big difference in volume.

The bridge H should be 6/32" (4.76mm) from bottom of E and G strings to the plastic pup cover. The neck H should be 8/32" (6.35mm).

On a Fender P, standard pups are 7/64" (2.8mm) from the E to the polepiece, and 5/64" (2mm) at the G polepiece. Add 1/64" to those measurements if you have the "Vintage style" or Noiseless pups.

 

[Caca de Kick]

Yup pickup height (really high on the P) would be my first guess.

I have always plugged my Musicmans in the 'normal' input, but I have the volume knobs backed off about 30-40%. I plug my old passives in the same normal input, but their volumes are set at max. So that tells us my MM's are going to be louder if I turn the volume knobs up them.

Reason I don't use my 'padded' input for my MM's, is because I own several other actives that are way hotter. And when I gig and bring one of each, this is what I have to do to maintain somwhat of a consistant signal to FOH.

 

[oli@bass]

Given that your preamp works as expected (the equalizer really doing boosting and cutting) I'm also with both other suggestions about pickup height: Either your 'Ray is way low or your P is way high.

As a sidenote: I think it's really a waste of resources to use a new battery for every gig. The batteries in my 'Rays last for years. Naturally that requires to pull the plug always when not playing the bass.

 

[jar546]

The specs you just gave me are just about exact with the E string on the SR being slightly more than the settings given for the E string

 

[Rick Auricchio]

How about the pup height on the Precision?

I presume they're stock pickups! Other brands can have a much hotter signal.

PS: I run my SR4H and passives in the "normal" input too, as Mike does. The SR4H is not much hotter than the passive, which I feel is an advantage.

 

[jar546]

Both basses have stock pickups with the P having the Badass II.

This is not a problem, just a curiousity. They have always been like this since day 1 and they simply are what they are. Again, I just ass-u-me that active means stronger signal strength but then again, it can mean stronger and better adjustments in the EQ.

 

[Ken Baker]

Both basses have stock pickups with the P having the Badass II.

This is not a problem, just a curiousity. They have always been like this since day 1 and they simply are what they are. Again, I just ass-u-me that active means stronger signal strength but then again, it can mean stronger and better adjustments in the EQ.

Active doesn't necessarily mean stronger/hotter. It typically means you get advanced EQ with real boost, sometimes more EQ options, and it allows you to have long cables without signal loss or excessive noise.

That your Precision seems hotter/louder may well be a function of your settings on that bass. For example, if you run with the volume cranked all the way up, which is typical, the bass will seem to be very hot. Due to perceptions you feel when you play either bass, the P might just seem hotter. The reality may be different, and YMMV here.

It could also be a characteristic of the input circuitry of your particular amp.

There are lots of variables to these sorts of things, and it would be interesting to know what happens if you play a variety of active basses through your amp. There are a lot of them "out there" that are known to put out a very hot signal; others not so much. While I don't have a 'Ray here, I do have a fistful of active basses (including a Bongo) and I run them all with the 10 db pad in. I also have an hellaciously hot passive instrument, and it too is used with the pad in and its controls backed off.

My opinion here is this: What you're describing just...is. It's your combination of instruments and gear and it all ties together in a unique way.

Revel in it. Oh, and don't forget to revel in that 'Ray.

Ken...

 

[Rick Auricchio]

Come to think of it, my stock '65 P has high output. Maybe not more than my active basses, but it's beefy. I always run it wide open, both volume and tone.

 

[nashman]

Similar experience here. I plug both my (stock/factory set-up settings) passive P and Ray into the same amp input (with no -db pad engaged). Gain set on my amp is about the same for both basses, suggesting the output of each bass is about the same. EQ on both basses set mostly flat. I'm actually happy with this, since I don't have to mess with my amp gain when switching basses.

 

[kirkm24]

Pickup height will make a big difference.

Like some others have said, I don't think the output level on EBMM basses is that much greater than a passive bass. In fact an old P bass I had with a quarter pounder pickup was considerably hotter in output than my Stingray or Bongo. I actually metered a Stingray pickup and it was only about 6.3K vs. my passive P pickup which was about 10K.

In any case, I'm glad that the EBMM's are not super hot because hot basses to me, tend to lose tonal qualities.