Silhouette Special piezo switching question

[lchender]

I'm loving my new Silhouette Special HSS Piezo. Both the magnetic and piezo pickups sound incredible and it plays great. I'm running into one challenge playing live with it that I'm hoping someone else has encountered and figured out a workaround.

I often switch between piezo and magnetic in the context of a solo gig. Typically, I run a looper and use the looper to record rhythm guitar on the fly. Then I can take a solo with a looped rhythm guitar bed. Often I'll record an acoustic-ish rhythm track using the piezo and then take a solo using the magnetic pickups. My problem is that the Silhouette Special doesn't have the 3-way toggle (piezo, magnetic, or mix) for the piezo that the other EBMM guitars typically have. So, to make that switch, I have to turn the piezo volume down and then bring up the magnetic volume at the beginning of the solo and then do the reverse at the end to switch back to piezo rhythm. My problem is that it is REALLY hard to do these two motions quickly at the beginning and end of a solo (in addition to working the looper).

I wonder if there might be a solution with some sort of a footpedal that would give me the same functionality as the piezo 3-way switch on other models (i.e., something like an a/b/y box, but with two outputs that I could selectively mute or blend - magnetics going to my guitar amp and piezo going to the house)? Alternately, maybe there would be some way to add a 3-way toggle to my guitar (although the idea of cutting into my guitar for an additional toggle kind of makes my stomach turn and would definitely adversely affect resale if I ever decided to sell it)?

I know I could just get an Axis SS or a JP with piezo and have the 3-way toggle, but I would lose the neck singlecoil pickup, which is a setting I love and use frequently on my Silhouette Special. It seems odd to me that EBMM left the 3-way toggle off the Sihouette Special. I wonder if the addition of the Silent System made having the 3-way toggle impossible for some reason?

Anyhow, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[DrKev]

I think one of the EB volume pedals can do what you want. Beej or Spud may have the answer. Guys, any hints?

 

[drewbixcubed]

Ernie Ball | Pedals - 500K Stereo/Pan Volume Pedal

 

[threeminutesboy]

you can contact Pete Dubaldo as well I think he has some spliter in the box that you can easily use

 

[lchender]

Thanks for the replies! Drewbixcubed, can the pedal you mentioned be used in stereo with 2 mono 1/4" cables (i.e., one for piezo output, one for magnetic output)? The product description mentions only TRS 1/4" for stereo. If so, will it keep the two channels separate (i.e., not mix the piezo and magnetic outputs) at the two extreme settings (heel down and toe up) so you only get one or the other going to their respective assigned outputs?

 

[Spudmurphy]

Hi

Sorry I'm late to this - I was away yesterday on a training course after getting new gear from Q

The answer has already been provided insofar as the stereo pedal will do it all for you.
My Albert Lee has the same Piezo set up as the Silo insofar as there is no toggle switch - just the separate volume controls. The JP6 is easier to control as it has a toggle switch.

There is a second hand pedal in the for sale section $89 shipped in ConUs. It can be used to split a stereo lead into a separate Piezo and separate Magnetic output, or you could use two mono out leads in and out of the pedal.
Incidentaly, and I know its nothing to do with your query but the pedal can also be used taking a mono in, and then directing your signal to amp A or Amp B or a combination of both using the PAN facillity. Could be used to drive a dry and separate wet set up.
The pedal is built like a tank.

Please come back if you have any queries.
- I've also used just the plain old splitter box that threeminuteboy has mentioned, but it doesn't give you the level of control that you need, and get with the pedal.

Spudo

 

[DrKev]

Spud, you are a wizard!

As the pedal is totally passive, can it pedal be run backwards? For example, in pan mode, plugging into the A and B outputs, and sending the output to one the A input?

 

[Spudmurphy]

Spud, you are a wizard!

As the pedal is totally passive, can it pedal be run backwards? For example, in pan mode, plugging into the A and B outputs, and sending the output to one the A input?

ahhhhhhhhhhhgggggggghhhh
That's hurting my head just thinking about it lol.

I can't apply an analogy to that scenario.- I'm gonna lie down in a dark room for a while.

[/ lie down]

So if I had a tape recorder playing the sound of a crowd roaring and another tape recorder playing someone singing Chant de guerre pour l'Armée du Rhin, you could plug each mono feed from the tape recorders into the outputs of the pedal and pan between the roaring sound and singing sound, into one amp??

Maybe not a good example after all - because to achieve this you would just plug the 2 mono outputs into the inputson the pedal and pan between them. mmmm

Give me a guitar/amp related scenario DrK and I'll trial it? I don't think the full capabilities of this pedal is widely known?

 

[beej]

I'm not familiar with that VP, but running it backwards might just do the trick. Though, the piezo output will be active and the mag output passive, so the taper of the pedal will be a bit different for each signal.

lchender- if you don't care about controlling the volume and just want to switch, another option is to get a switchable A/B and run it in reverse. (Whirlwind A/B, etc.) I'd probably look for something that would take a stereo (TRS) cable and select either output, I'm sure there's something out there (and if not, it's pretty easy to build.)

 

[threeminutesboy]

Definitly the easiest way for me as well. As I said such module could be purchased from dubaldo music.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Hi Beej

The Stereo pedal quoted will meet the OP's requirements.
What DrK and I are getting into is taking the pedal to the limit.
Because it will actually do more than what EB officially sets out which is ...

The dual potentiometer has a 500k ohm resistance suitable for the audio path of passive or active instruments. Attached to the footplate is a switch that provides the user two operating modes (volume or pan). Use the A input / A output for the left channel and the B input / B output for the right channel for stereo signals. For use with stereo cable installations using TRS type stereo plugs, use the B input and B output. For use as a mono volume pedal, use the A input and A output. For use as a typical pan pedal, switch the toe tap switch to the pan position and use only the A input. The pedal will pan the signal between the A and B outputs.

and that is confusing enough as it reads - without me and DrK adding to it!!

Here's one thing it can do ...
I've used the Mono output from my Hardtail Albert - it has no Piezo.
I want to send that signal to my Mesa F50 amp, and play "Show me the Way" by Frampton
... ...when it gets to the voicebox solo I have a little 10 watt practice amp modded to be my voice box (and actually sounds great great). I can use the heel toe of the pedal to change the signal from
100% to the Mesa
to
100% to the voice box
and back again.

Works like a charm.

But I still don't fully understand DrK's query - it's the "Scientist" in him

 

[lchender]

Wow, thank you so much for all the replies everyone!

The more I think about this, I think it would be ideal if I could get a box that would do either a split/pan to two outputs (piezo to front of house, magnetics to guitar amp) or sum the piezo and magnetics to one output (for when I'm too lazy to drag a guitar amp in addition to my small PA for solo gigs). Would the EB stereo volume/pan pedal let me do both of those scenarios? Is there an A/B box that would let me do either?

I presume that it might be useful to have the ability to lift ground on one of the outputs to avoid potential ground loop issues. I suspect there are A/B boxes with that facility. Radial Engineering has this box: http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/bigshotaby.php Could I use it in reverse since it's passive? If I used it in reverse would it let me sum two inputs to one output?

Alternately, after thinking about it, I guess wiring in a 3-way toggle on the guitar would be very simple and easily reversible by buying a spare pickguard. I could always have the toggle electronics removed and replace the pickguard if I wanted to put it back to stock. I have to admit that I wish the Silhouette/Silhouette Specials with piezo came with the 3-way toggle like many of the other models with piezo do. Is that a relatively easy thing for a qualified tech to install (I'm not handy that way)?

 

[Spudmurphy]

Just re-reading the original post ... sounds like lchender is looking to take two inputs (or one stereo input) and pan then between two outputs. The VP won't do that for a stereo signal, unless I've missed something.

The EB 6165 will do just that.

I'd forgotten about these old videos I did .
SDC10660 - YouTube

SDC10668 - YouTube

and here's one of the mono Albert split between two separate amps

SDC10943.AVI - YouTube

 

[beej]

Brilliant. Well I stand corrected!

 

[Lou]

This should fit your needs nicely. Tony from Startouch made one of these for me waaaaay back and added it to his pedal line. Built like a tank. Hands free switching...

startouchpedals Startouch:Stereo AB+Y Pedal System

 

[lchender]

Thanks so much, guys! This is really helpful!

Spud, using the EB Stereo Volume/Pan pedal, did you ever have any problems with ground loops when feeding both an electric guitar amp and an acoustic amp? My application would be very similar to yours illustrated in the youtube videos you kindly posted (I use a fishman loudbox artist amp and a blackface fender).

There are also some solo gigs where I don't bother to bring the electric amp because the magnetics tone I get into the fishman is good enough for an occasional clean electric solo and most of the solos are played on the piezo setting. For these situations, I'm going into a looper before the acoustic amp so I can record rhythm (usually piezo) guitar to play underneath a solo. In that case, I would want to have the piezo and magnetics signals summed to one output and be able to pan/switch between them (similar to what I would do if the guitar had the typical 3-way switch for piezo/mags/both). I know the two volume controls on my guitar will do it, but it's too much to lower one volume and raise the other (two separate, time-consuming motions) AND attempt to operate a looper with precise timing for recording and playing back rhythm parts at the same time. I need something a bit more instantaneous to switch between piezo and magnetics. It would be nice if the EB pedal would let me pan between piezo and magnetics, both coming out one output on the other side of the pedal. If the pedal wouldn't do this, do you have any thoughts about other possible solutions?

 

[Lou]

The Lehle stuff can be a possibility. Email their support with your requirements and they will tell you if they have something that will fit your needs.

Lehle Gitarrentechnik PURE SOUND - NO NOISE - MORE TONE

 

[Spudmurphy]

Spud, using the EB Stereo Volume/Pan pedal, did you ever have any problems with ground loops when feeding both an electric guitar amp and an acoustic amp? My application would be very similar to yours illustrated in the youtube videos you kindly posted (I use a fishman loudbox artist amp and a blackface fender).

I've never experienced ground loop problems infact a lot of British amps don't have a ground lift switch facility. Does that mean that it's not so much of a problem in the UK because of the 3 prong mains plug set up we use? There was one venue where both the other guitarist and I had some problems but I think that was just down to the electrics of that place.

There are also some solo gigs where I don't bother to bring the electric amp because the magnetics tone I get into the fishman is good enough for an occasional clean electric solo and most of the solos are played on the piezo setting. For these situations, I'm going into a looper before the acoustic amp so I can record rhythm (usually piezo) guitar to play underneath a solo. In that case, I would want to have the piezo and magnetics signals summed to one output and be able to pan/switch between them (similar to what I would do if the guitar had the typical 3-way switch for piezo/mags/both). I know the two volume controls on my guitar will do it, but it's too much to lower one volume and raise the other (two separate, time-consuming motions) AND attempt to operate a looper with precise timing for recording and playing back rhythm parts at the same time. I need something a bit more instantaneous to switch between piezo and magnetics. It would be nice if the EB pedal would let me pan between piezo and magnetics, both coming out one output on the other side of the pedal. If the pedal wouldn't do this, do you have any thoughts about other possible solutions?

I've been racking my brains and tried the pedal with a stereo in and a stereo out but that doesn't work.
I just can't see that the pedal will split the mono out of the guitar into the two separate piezo/mag signals.
So I'm kinda "idea'd out" at the mo. It's not a combination I have needed to use, and I can't see the pedal doing that for you. Maybe that Lehle switching pedal that Lou has suggested is the way to go and as he suggests I think an e mail to them will confirm if their switching system can do that?

Best of Luck - please tell us how you get on?

 

[Spudmurphy]

On reflection, maybe a reversible guitar mod might just do it?

Beej is the kiddy on guitar electrics - I am very poor in this field.

But I was thinking of a replacement push pull pot - maybe grounding the piezo by pushing on the pot, thereby instantly cutting it?

Help!!!!!!

 

[lchender]

I've been racking my brains and tried the pedal with a stereo in and a stereo out but that doesn't work.
I just can't see that the pedal will split the mono out of the guitar into the two separate piezo/mag signals.
So I'm kinda "idea'd out" at the mo. It's not a combination I have needed to use, and I can't see the pedal doing that for you. Maybe that Lehle switching pedal that Lou has suggested is the way to go and as he suggests I think an e mail to them will confirm if their switching system can do that?

Best of Luck - please tell us how you get on?

Hi Spud, I may not have explained what I'm hoping to do very clearly. What I'd like to be able to do is take stereo out (separate piezo and magnetic) out of the guitar to the Ernie Ball pan/volume pedal. Then I could presumably select (or blend) between piezo and magnetics. What I was hoping I might be able to do is go from the EB pedal output to the looper input in mono (the piezo and magnetics summed into mono). Is that possible or will the pedal only do two separate outs?

From what I understand, Morley makes a unit that can either redirect two separate signals to indiviudal outs or sum them to a mono out, with level control and the ability to switch between. However, I hear it has a very pronounced negative effect on your guitar tone.