Silhouette vs silohuette special neck math

[zombi]

So, silhouette is 24 fret vs silhouette special's 22 fret neck, but both are the same scale and looks like both join the body in the same place with the bridge in the same spot... So what sort of mathematical trickery allows for the two extra frets? Are there slight differences of the entire neck length that my untrained eye cannot percieve? Or are the frets simply closer on the 24 (appears this maybe the case) and if so, how are both notes in tune whilst created from two different string lengths and therefore two different wavelengths? Are the two necks interchangeable with the two models? Doth this not perplex thee? I'm guessing these are dumb questions with a simple answer that I am forgetting from math classes of yore. Also a measuring tape and calipers could most likely resolve the issue, but I'd rather get the math involved...

 

[Dizzy]

Errrrrmmmm .... you're seriously over analysing these guitars man !

No rocket science here.

The neck is just 2 frets longer.

Same scale length (Bridge to Nut)

Different bodies, necks NOT interchangeable

 

[robelinda2]

I failed maths every single year at school, bloody hopeless. Even the bonehead maths class was too hard. Or maybe I just spent the whole time thinking how cool it would be actually play guitar well. Maths, bah. Go play yer balls!

 

[ShaneV]

Scale has no bearing on frets, you can keep adding frets forever, till they get so close together that it becomes impossible. Look at a F brand 21 fret neck, then a 22 fret neck- same deal. Simply a matter of adding two more little metal bits in the right places and voila. Look at Uli Jon Roth's Sky Guitar for an example of this taken to the extreme.

 

[Headstock]

One of Each = Two

 

[zombi]

Silhouette neck is a bit longer. Assuming that bridge position must be a little bit higher too... I was sayin originally, both necks looked the same length and attached at the same spot, therefore 24 frets would have to fit on the same space as 22. I have since compared neck to neck and the silohouette neck is longer. It sort of throws my eyes off since I'm used to 22's but oh well.

 

[zombi]

I failed maths every single year at school, bloody hopeless. Even the bonehead maths class was too hard. Or maybe I just spent the whole time thinking how cool it would be actually play guitar well. Maths, bah. Go play yer balls!

My math class was my "study hall" class too and I had. Teacher who wanted to learn guitar, so I'd bring my guitar and teach the math teacher songs during study hall.

 

[candid_x]

I have since compared neck to neck and the silohouette neck is longer.

There it is, nothing more complicated than that.

The 24 fret silo has the advantage of a higher register, while the 22 fret silo special places the single coil neck pickup at where the 24th fret would be. Sitting at that spot enhances harmonic content, since it sits on the second octave.

 

[robelinda2]

Who needs that 24th fret anyway!

 

[zombi]

^dunno. Never had one to use 'til now...

 

[TonyEVH5150]

There it is, nothing more complicated than that.

The 24 fret silo has the advantage of a higher register, while the 22 fret silo special places the single coil neck pickup at where the 24th fret would be. Sitting at that spot enhances harmonic content, since it sits on the second octave.

There's the answer right there. Also explains why the Silo and Silo Spec pickguards are not interchangeable as well. The Silo's neck pickup has been moved back towards the bridge slightly to accomodate the neck extension. So that pickguard is actually smaller.

The Silo Special pickguard is bigger. Has a little more territory to cover, and that neck pickup has to move closer to the neck to sit at that harmonic sweet spot.

 

[whitestrat]

I like the Silhouette Special.

 

[RocketRalf]

The Silo's neck pickup has been moved back towards the bridge slightly to accomodate the neck extension.

It's actually the other way around, the Silo was the first model introduced so they moved the neck pickup forward on the SS . Silly comment just kidding

I'm almost sure from all the pictures I've seen that the SS also has a bigger body, so from bottom strap button to tip of headstock both guitars should be equal in length.

I for one use the 24 fret when I want to hit an F sharp (Finally Free from DT has one) or simply use the high E in fast runs without having to bend the string to reach it.

About the harmonic content: It doesn't really affect my playing. If I want a more hollow tone, I'll just play on the next string. The neck pickup in the silhouette is roughly on the second octave of the third or fourth fret, so when playing a pair of positions lower and using alternate fingerings (I'm lucky to have big hands too) you can achieve a very similar sound. The only situation where I would have trouble finding that sound is when open chording, but I love my neck humbucker anyway, so I wouldn't trade for a SS just for a that tone and others that might be just a little different. Unless the guitar I traded for had trem and piezo

 

[jamminjim]

I'm almost sure from all the pictures I've seen that the SS also has a bigger body, so from bottom strap button to tip of headstock both guitars should be equal in length.
QUOTE]

I was looing at this recently, and you're right. The Silo has the horns scooped out lower so a player can reach the 24th fret. Although the length of the bodies from upper horn tip to tail is the same, the Silo has less body mass. It might be why the Silo body looks smaller - cause it actually is, but not in overall length of the body.

 

[ivanmihaljevic]

Who needs that 24th fret anyway!

Actually, I do use it from time to time! Not that I couldn't do without it...
But I actually find it easier to access the 22nd fret if it's a 24 fret neck.

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I am a big neck pickup person, and have found that 24 fret guitars never sound 'right' to my ears. But hey! Each to your own and all that....

 

[zombi]

Yup. Upon further inspection we find that the bottom horn is scooped lower, as was mentioned, but so is the top horn. The pickguard is shorter (only three screws on the left hand side as opposed to the 4 screws on the ss) and pickups are much tighter together. Bridge is located in the same position on both. The lower groove in the horns is what requires the squattier pickguard, other than that, both guitars are the same length and approximate size.

 

[jamminjim]

Hey Zombi - I said "horns" were scooped lower. That's bof-em dude.

Seems like some of this was said before...

HUmmmmm

 

[NorM]

I love math
I also like 24 frets cause it makes the math easier for me.

Rob says he doesn't get math so we'll start there.
An open A string (when in tune) vibrates 110 times a second. That's it's frequency (Hz). When you cut the string length in half (fret at the 12th fret) given the same string tension and thickness the string is forced to vibrate twice as fast or 220 Hz. If you cut the string length in half again (fret at the 24th fret) the same thing happens again and you get A 440Hz. (This is where intonation becomes important but not now)

And now some stinking math:
Given A 110Hz and A 220Hz We can find all the frequencies for the other notes:
freq (A#) = Freq (A) * 2^(1/12)
116.54 = 110 * 2^(1/12)

You can check this with the chart below or your calculator
For fun
freq (unknown note) = freq (known note) * 2^(x/12)
x = distance between notes in half steps

And it's almost the same thing for string length. (From the fret to the bridge) We know open A (110 Hz) length is 25.5"
(For metric people just multiply all lengths by 2.54 to convert to cm.)
BTW We're going metric every inch of the way! i digress
StrLn (A#) = StrLn (A) / 2^(1/12)
24.07 = 25.5 / 2^(1/12)

Then you find the distance between frets by subtracting the differences between string lengths for adjacent notes
Fret 1 = StrLn (A) - StrLn (A#)
1.43 = 25.50 - 24.07

Fret__Note______Hz______String Length____Fret Length
0______A______110.00_____25.50
1______A#____116.54_____24.07___________1.43
2______B______123.47_____22.72___________1.35
3______C______130.81_____21.44___________1.28
4______C#____138.59_____20.24___________1.20
5______D______146.83_____19.10___________1.14
6______D#____155.56_____18.03___________1.07
7______E______164.81_____17.02___________1.01
8______F______174.61_____16.06___________0.96
9______F#_____185.00_____15.16___________0.90
10____G_______196.00_____14.31___________0.85
11____G#______207.65_____13.51___________0.80
12____A_______220.00_____12.75___________0.76
13____A#_____233.08_____12.03___________0.72
14____B_______246.94_____11.36___________0.68
15____C_______261.63_____10.72___________0.64
16____C#______277.18_____10.12___________0.60
17____D_______293.66_____9.55___________0.57
18____D#_____311.13_____9.02___________0.54
19____E_______329.63_____8.51___________0.51
20____F_______349.23_____8.03___________0.48
21____F#_____369.99_____7.58___________0.45
22____G______392.00_____7.16___________0.43
23____G#____415.30_____6.75___________0.40
24____A_______440.00_____6.38___________0.38


Like ShaneV said you can keep adding frets but they do get pretty small after a while

I didn't get my calipers out to check this but I wish someone would

 

[zombi]

Hey Zombi - I said "horns" were scooped lower. That's bof-em dude.

Seems like some of this was said before...

HUmmmmm

Just to clarify, I was repeating the info to summarize so I could understand it all. I'm sorry I missed you saying both horns were scooped, I was checking the thread from my iphone and I tend to skim read it and right as I read yours I was noticing the smaller horn was scooped lower, but hadn't noticed the longer horn until i was typing.

Yes, as you said, they are scooped to make access to the 24 easier, but the scoop has another purpose. By scooping them lower, the neck pocket is physically lower as well. Since the bridge is in the same place, this is entirely where the compensation for the 2 extra frets comes from.

I just thought analyzing the differences could be amusing.

Now Norm, see, that's the sort of thing I was looking to see. Math is fun! I wish I knew where my digital calipers were...