StingRay 5 HS: different versions?

[Swiss Frank]

I played a new bolt-on SR5 HS maple-fingerboard in Tokyo that blew my socks off. Even after owning an SR5 H (single humbucker) rosewood fingeroard since 2002, I was "sold" within about 2 notes, and each of the pickup selection settings re-confirmed my enthusiasm.

However, I've decided I might not be willing to pay the Japan-market price for the new guitar, in a color I don't care for.

After web-searching, I'm finding a few used SR5 HS's for sale and the prices seem reasonable given the condition.

QUESTION 1: the sound of the bridge humbucker is quite different than my 2002 instrument, however. This leads me to wonder about whether there are different generations of pickups since 2002 or so? If so what are they?

QUESTION 2: I'm also aware HS models used to have a humbucking "dummy pickup" buried inside to cancel hum. The salesman said this new HS doesn't have that. Fair enough--Fender's been selling noiseless single-coils for some time now, too. But again, is this a question of different generations? And if so did tone change much?

 

[Edmang]

QUESTION 1: the sound of the bridge humbucker is quite different than my 2002 instrument, however. This leads me to wonder about whether there are different generations of pickups since 2002 or so? If so what are they?

For Stingray 5

1987-1991 Alnico pickups
1991-2008 Ceramic Pickups
2008-Today Alnico pickups

Sterling 5 has Ceramic pickups

QUESTION 2: I'm also aware HS models used to have a humbucking "dummy pickup" buried inside to cancel hum. The salesman said this new HS doesn't have that. Fair enough--Fender's been selling noiseless single-coils for some time now, too. But again, is this a question of different generations? And if so did tone change much?

According to the control diagram, the HS still has a phantom coil

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...ages/instruments/pickups/bodies-2/body-47.jpg

 

[Swiss Frank]

OK, were the electronics 2008-today all the same setup? EG, not just pickup material but the actual pickup part number and preamp part number?

I'm hearing that the HS model's preamp has a little inductor "coil simulator" used to cancel hum. If so is that present on the HH preamp circuitboards too?

 

[Golem]

For Stingray 5

1987-1991 Alnico pickups
1991-2008 Ceramic Pickups
2008-Today Alnico pickups

Sterling 5 has Ceramic pickups



According to the control diagram, the HS still has a phantom coil

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...ages/instruments/pickups/bodies-2/body-47.jpg

Since that is a control diagram, but not the actual wiring/circuit
drawing, I wouldn't assume that the HS still uses a phantom PU,
rather than an induction coil to *simulate* the phantom PU. The
phantom PU, since it never plays, is basically an induction coil to
cancel hum, but a lot bulkier. There would be no practical reason
to update the control diagram just to change the jargon from a
"phantom PU" to an "induction coil" given that the only difference
between these two is their outward form factor, not their function
and not their place in the signal path. It's like if the blade switch
were replaced by a rotary switch, two forms of the same device.

 

[Swiss Frank]

Thanks Golem!

In fact I'm making the same supposition: that the phantom coil shown on the diagram may be something else that picks up the hum required to cancel it. In fact there are no hard and fast rules for schematics, circuit diagrams etc. You could use the same symbol for both a pickup and an inductor if you wanted...

I've started a new thread with very specifcally-worded questions but generally:

If there is now not a regular pickup buried (it used to be really an actual pickup complete with cover, it looks like) but rather a small coil, WHERE IS THE COIL? If I were EBMM I'd probably just mount it on the circuit board, as a sturdy and reliable place to keep it pointed the right way, but it would have two wires into the pickup switch rather than any other connection to the rest of the pre-amp.

Then there'd be a question: if its on the circuit board, would it be on H and HH models too or just the HS? Is there an empty place on the HH circuit boards? Or for instance to simplify their stocking, do they just make all the preamp boards with this inductor and simply ignore it on HH models?

In short, I don't care where it is, as long as it's not electrically connected to the rest of the pre-amp. If it is indeed separate, whether on or off that circuit board, then I can rewire an HH to act like an HS at the flip of a switch. (And that's what I want!) Or if it is only present on HS models, then I can buy an HS and get a Seymour Duncan for the neck PU, and give it an HH mode.

 

[Golem]

Then there'd be a question: if its on the circuit board,
would it be on H and HH models too or just the HS?

A 1H 5-string can play half the humbucker as a single
coil so a phantom PU or inductor coil would be useful.

But an HH does not need such help, cuz it plays only
humbucking pairs from among its collection of 4 coils.

BTW I'm no engineer but I don't think the position of
induction coil matters. I think its electrical effect isn't
dependent on its location or orientation as long as it
has an opposite polarity to the single coil that would
have otherwise been the source of hum.

 

[Mu5icM@n]

On the bongo the induction coil is right on the circuit board. Dunno where it is on the Stingray 5, the preamps are very different between the two basses.

 

[Swiss Frank]

Hi Golem,

> A 1H 5-string can play half the humbucker as a single
coil so a phantom PU or inductor coil would be useful.

Sure, and they used to work like you describe. Then the phantom coil was gotten rid of and the switch no longer has a "single coil" sound. I'm curious if they have a good inductor solution for the HS whey they don't provide it on the H.

> But an HH does not need such help, cuz it plays only
humbucking pairs from among its collection of 4 coils.

It would need it for single-coil sounds, which are really awesome sounds on the HS and in the bass world more generally.

In fact the reason I've got so many questions is that 1) I want the HS sounds but there are so few available that I'm trying to figure out if I can just hot-wire an HH which are plentiful. (I can do the wiring, it's more a question whether the inductor is actually shipped in the HH even though its not used.)

> I'm no engineer but I don't think the position of
induction coil matters.

It only needs to be near enough the pickups that it picks up more or less the same interference. You wouldn't want the phantom to be on the headstock, for instance, because it could be significantly closer or farther away from something putting out electromagnetic hum (eg, a fluorescent light).

But the reason why it matters to ME is that if it is a separate component, they surely wouldn't put it in the HH. If it's actually mounted on the preamp board, in contrast, then there's a good chance that they just make one type of preamp board for all their Stingrays and therefore this inductor would be present in an HH as well.

 

[Swiss Frank]

OK: I went into a shop and they popped the pickguard of a brand new HS for me.

PHANTOM COIL!

That answers about all my questions.

To make a bass that can do HS AND HH sounds AND is totally hum-cancelling, you either:

1) start with an HS, and replace the neck single with a humbucker.

2) start with an HH, an add a phantom coil.

Whichever way you go you'll additionally have some routing to do, but the wiring is dirt simple.You merely have to add the simplest possible switch (single pole double throw) to connect either the phantom coil, or neck second coil, to the master pickup switch wherever the existing one of those two is hooked.

Given that 80% of Stingray5's are H models, and 80% of what's left are HH models, I'm guessing that even in cases of destroyed bases it's going to be FAR more common to find a used humbucker than single coil. And that results in you having a single-coil pickup spare or to sell. (And one use of that would be to give a new H model a true single-coil sound, like the old H models had a long time ago back when they had a phantom pickup too.)

And furthermore, I'm a real fan of the HS sounds: bridge single, neck single. So maybe I can save myself all the work by simply playing the instrument AS-IS!

 

[Murphy]

I much prefer the sound of the S in my HS compared to the neck H in my HH 5vers

and combined HS sound is very useable unlike the HH sound IMHO