stock axis pickup question

[veniculum]

Hey guys....so I've had my Axis for a couple weeks now and it's growing on me more and more every day. It took a little getting used to. The body shape is certainly different than my other strat-style guitars. But now that I've gotten used to it, it's actually more comfortable than most of them.

I do have a question though...and I'm hoping that some of the experts here can steer me in the right direction.
I came to realize early on that my particular guitar was a little special. At first, I didn't understand why I have chrome hardware and pickups (as opposed to the zebra style on all others). After doing a little research, here on this very site, I found out that this was a Guitar Center exclusive model. To be honest, when I was buying the guitar, I didn't even notice that it had chrome covered pickups. Only after looking at picture after picture did I realize that something was different. At the end of the day, I actually like the covered pickups...at least on my particular guitar. They seem to match well with the desert burst finish.
However, after a few weeks, I've noticed that compared to most of my guitars (with either Dimarzios or Duncan pickups), these pickups don't seem to be quite as hot. I tend to play high gain most of the time (kinda chasing Eddie's brown sound...if I had to describe what I'm looking for), and I equip most of my guitars with pickups that will do the job (with some obvious exceptions...I left my strat, and Les Paul alone). Anyway...I would probably compare this Axis to my more "hot rodded" guitars...Floyd equipped, fast neck, etc. So it's a little strange to me that this thing doesn't sound as hot, as my other 'hot rod' guitars. If anything, I would think this guitar would be better than any in this department. That said....I don't, for a minute, think it has anything to do with the guitar itself....but I do think that the different pickups may have something to do with it. The best way I can describe it is, it always sounds like I'm playing the guitar with the volume turned up to 6 or 7, when it's turned all the way up to ten.

I know that covers on pickups can cool things down a little, and I'm wondering if that's the case here. I've seen and heard lots of Axis models (watching tons of videos online, etc), and I really do believe that this guitar is capable of giving me the exact tone I'm looking for...I just think that it's getting choked a bit because of these "special edition" pickups.

So for the experts...do you guys think if I were to put the stock Axis (zebra) Dimarzios in here, I'd get a little hotter sound...which is what I'm looking for? I sure would love to hear your opinions on this. I know, from my own experience, that most guitars that I've played/owned...with pickup covers, typically, the tone is a little on the warm side (as opposed to high gain tones typically associated with uncovered JBs or Super Distortions). I just want to get the most out of this guitar...and I would be willing to put uncovered p'ups in here if I thought it would make a significant difference.

I appreciate your comments/suggestions. Thanks.

Todd

 

[beej]

Hey Todd-

When people talk about the effect of covers, they're usually referring to the eddy currents that can be induced by metallic covers, robbing a bit of high end (not output). I don't think you're going to notice any difference from the covers that are used on those p'ups. (I've got covered and non-covered, for comparison.)

If you want to experiment, easiest way to go is shimming- you can add a small piece of wood or foam underneath them to raise them up (that makes a huge difference). Easier than replacing the p'ups, for what I'm sure would be no real gain.

 

[Red Scare]

While technically there IS an effect caused by the covers, I'm not convinced that 99 out of 100 people could tell in a blind test. It's more likely a placebo effect - You know they are there, so you are "hearing" a difference. I've gone through it many times. Ultimately, if you THINK other pickups will sound better, than switch them out. You can always switch back. There was a recent study that showed that people that KNEW they were getting a placebo STILL felt better than those who didn't get anything.
New Research Sheds Light on Placebo Effect : NPR

 

[Slingy]

I dont like any break up in my sound and these are actually hotter than I like, I keep my volume around 7 or 8 all the time.

 

[veniculum]

Thanks for the replies. Beej...I actually did raise the bridge pickup...i have these small rubber washers which work perfect...I did the same thing with my Ibz prestige. That guitar also has direct mount pickups that sat really low...

Part of the problem here is that I primarily play through a Line6 pocket pod....for practicing. This thing sounds awesome, but you do have to run your pickups a little higher, or the sound will cut out sooner (as opposed to a standard amp/rig). When I do play through my amp, I usually have to lower the pickups a little bit to prevent the sound from breaking up too soon.

That said, even after raising the bridge pickup (really high), I didn't notice a real difference in the sound (or should I say the sustain or just general output)...which leads me to believe that it may not be the cover after all...perhaps it's just a different pickup...maybe just a warmer, less hot-rodded pickup. And while it's possible that the pickup in this guitar isn't as hot as I'd like it, it does surprise me a little, considering the guitar's pedigree. I would think that no matter what was put in this thing, it would be really hot...just as I like it.
Anyone know what model Dimarzio they're using on these GC exclusive Axis's (GC Platinum site says "Dimarzio Custom"?

In any event, I get the concept of "placebo effect"...that's definitely not the case here. I play my guitars back to back...in this case, I played a Jackson PC-1 with a super distortion in the bridge....and 3 Charvels with JBs in the bridge. Granted...the Jackson's got a sustainer built in, which I leave off most of the time...but the Charvels do not....all of those guitars run very hot...real effortless harmonics, sustain, etc. This Axis has a phenomenal sound, it just seems to die out sooner than the others. And when you play the guitars back to back, there's no mistaking that...I know what I hear.

I think, ultimately, I'm going to drop different pickups in here....this guitar is way too much fun to play to just give up on tone ...I really do think the potential is there. Even playing unplugged, it rings beautifully...much nicer than many of my guitars...and it's got a lot of sustain as well.

At the same time, I would like to go with the pickups that were intended for this guitar. IF I wanted to buy the standard Axis pickup, are they EB MM Dimarzios...or are they just a standard model Dimarzio pickup? The other option would be to look at Duncan pickups (which I usually like better than Dimarzios)...but once again...I'd like to stay with a pickup that was in mind when this guitar was being designed...with that, I'd say Dimarzio is the way to go.

Once again...I appreciate the comments...and would sure appreciate some additional info regarding the standard pickups in most Axis guitars.
Thanks very much.

Todd

 

[beej]

Todd- the pickups in there are the custom wound Dimarzio's used in the EVH, Axis, Axis Super Sport, 25th/Reflex and HH Albert Lee. They're made for MM by Dimarzio and not sold separately. Those are the pickups intended for the guitar.

That said ... lots of guys have switched them up. If you want more oomph, a pickup swap isn't too difficult to do so you should totally experiment and see what you like. (Don't sell those pickups though ... you'll have a tough time finding replacements.)

 

[headcrash]

Hi Todd,

there lots of discussion which of the Dimarzios of the current line are closest to those Customs (which are not available save if you buy an Axis). Some say the Tonezone for bridge is closest. I disagree with them; I tried them because I bougth my ASS used with only a stock neck pickup. I also tried an Air Zone, which was better (more open, not as muffled) than Tonezone. One time I was lucky and got an original bridge pickup on ebay, which was just perfect.
I don't consider them to be too hot, they're about on par with i.e. the Duncan JB.

For my other guitar (Albert Lee MM90 converted to 2 humbuckers) I tried the Norton bridge/Air Norton neck, and I even seem to like it more. The Norton bridge has a more vintagey openness to it, while giving you tremendous mid crunch (good for brown sound) and tight bass. It seems to be as hot as the Axis pickup, but as it is more open and "brown", it feels even a little louder and aggressive, although its DC resistance lies only in the 12k range. Maybe you should give it a try.
By the way I recently installed chrome covers (made from german silver) on the "Nortons", and I didn't notice any difference, and man am I picky with my sound (sometimes it pisses me off myself).

Consider, that these pickups where designed with and for Eddie. Through his career to the introduction of the Axis in 1991, he mostly used low output pickups to get his brown sound. By the end of the 80ies he began using a Soldano SLO-100 which can make the weakest pickup get hot. So one can assume, that the Axis pickups are not as hot as one would expect from the fairly high DC resistance (around 16k I believe).

One idea: can you confirm that all your other pickups have a lower DC resistance compared to the Axis pickups? Do you use the same cable? There's a possibility of taming down highs (thus taking away edgyness, wich tickles tube stages more and better than e.g. low mids), when using high DC res. pickups with fairly high capacitance cables.

 

[veniculum]

Thanks for the replies...I appreciate it. I'm very familiar with a lot of Dimarzio pickups...I've used many over the years...I have a guitar with a Tonezone in it right now, and it sounds great. I wouldn't sell the pickups that came with this guitar regardless of what I decide to do...just because I like having the stock parts..just in case. In any event...I tend to think that the pickups in my guitar, while being custom Dimarzios...they're definitely not as hot as the tonezone in my Charvel. And my other Dimarzio equipped guitars do definitely sound hotter. It's fine...as was mentioned, it's easy enough to swap pickups....and for two hundred bucks, you can do very well. I think in this case, it's going to be a tough call...I really do prefer JBs to tonezones/super distortions. For whatever reason, I've just always preferred the sound of duncans to Dimarzios. That said, I'm weary about putting a pickup in a guitar that just has not been designed for that pickup. It does make a difference...I've learned that the hard way many times over the years.

Some pickup changes that I've made over the years that I really did like include a JB Jr. in my Strat...single coil pickups just don't work for me....putting that thing in there COMPLETELY changed the sound for the better...at least for me. I'm sure I can do the same with this guitar...I know Duncan makes a lot of different pickups...some guys like the duncan customs...the TB 5's...blackouts, etc. I always go back to the JB....it just is a classic sounding pickup..and is sorta the benchmark for all hard rock tones. That may be the route I go. Have you guys heard of anyone putting one of them in an Axis?

Thanks again
BTW...I use the same 2 or 3 cables...they're all high quality.

Todd