The problem with this silo trem...

[blindlemonjeff]

Hi all. I asked this question to all you people a few weeks ago, but got no help from anyone! Perhaps it was viewed as a stupid question, I don't know. So here it is again, in the hope that someone out there will kindly offer some assistance...

I recently bought a Silo Special with the vintage trem. However, it was 'dive only'. I quickly tried to rectify the issue by changing springs etc. The only resulting setup that gave my trem a correct 'ride' angle in order to float was two different strength springs. The question is whether having two different strength springs will ever contort said trem block pivots over time.

Thanks to anyone who has the attention span to read this rather dull thread...

 

[brsmith21]

I'll preface my reply by stating that I'm no luthier or trem expert. That said, I don't believe that two different strength springs will cause a problem. It does seem like it would feel a little off in the travel, though. When setting up my Strat trem, (my Axis is a hardtail, so no EBMM experience), I use the same strength springs but often fine tune the "ride heighth" by adjusting the claw. When the trem's right, the claw is never exactly straight in the cavity. This seems logical to me, as does your scenario, since the guitar strings are not the same size from top to bottom. Seems like you'd have to compensate somewhere. Again, if I'm wrong, please correct me as I have no intention to mislead or represent that I know more than I do.

Okay, it's my job to represent that I know more than I do, but not here.

 

[koogie2k]

I'll be honest and tell you I am no expert. However, I don't recall this being posted before either....(maybe I did not see it....) but the question is important to you. I doubt it was ignored on purpose as that is not the NorM around here. So with that said.....our "attention span" is quite a bit longer than you may think....my advice is this.....as it will always be.....call Customer Service. That is what they do and they will bend over backwards for you. Here is the number...

1-800-543-2255.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jimi D]

I recently bought a Silo Special with the vintage trem. However, it was 'dive only'. I quickly tried to rectify the issue by changing springs etc. The only resulting setup that gave my trem a correct 'ride' angle in order to float was two different strength springs. The question is whether having two different strength springs will ever contort said trem block pivots over time.

I can't imagine this having any ill effect on your guitar (in fact, I'm having some trouble imagining it at all), but I have to say that I've been setting up my own trems on my own guitars for 20 years, and I have never once used "different strength springs" in setting up a trem to float - what's wrong with just adjusting the claw in the cavity to reduce the spring tension?

 

[Mick]

Hi there welcome to the forums, I run a guitar shop in germany and I do this for living, does that mean I´m an expert
You´have to ask my customers

So the only advice I can give you take it to a pro who does this on a regular basis because there is more than changing the springs or their tension to convert to a floating trem. If you release the spring tension the trem goes up and it´s floating, but on the other side you will see that you´re action got higher, so you have to set that again, if you do so the little screws of the saddles come out further and they will disturb you while playing. The list is long , it´s an interaction of many things.
That sound weird and much but for a guy who does that everyday it´s not difficult to do. But maybe for the unexpierienced like you describe yourself.

And always remember the sound will change a bit because the full contact of the trem to the body is reduced to a 2 pivot screws contact.

Good luck and enjoy your new guitar!!!

Mick

 

[blindlemonjeff]

Cheers to all. I have compensated the springs by adjusting the claw screws, along with lowering the saddle height to address the subsequent raised action. As is the norm on floating guitars, my Ibanez has 3 equal springs - but that guitar has a trem cavity designed for floaters.

When finding the correct height on my EB, the supplied springs gave either a trem too high or too low. The only combination that worked with 10-46 strings involved a thicker Ibanez spring and a normal EB spring. It now floats perfectly and, along with the complete setup, plays like a dream.

I think my mind has been put at rest by all your comments.

Cheers.

 

[Philip]

we could use some pics of your silo cheers

 

[Spudmurphy]

Cheers to all. I have compensated the springs by adjusting the claw screws, along with lowering the saddle height to address the subsequent raised action. As is the norm on floating guitars, my Ibanez has 3 equal springs - but that guitar has a trem cavity designed for floaters.

When finding the correct height on my EB, the supplied springs gave either a trem too high or too low. The only combination that worked with 10-46 strings involved a thicker Ibanez spring and a normal EB spring. It now floats perfectly and, along with the complete setup, plays like a dream.

I think my mind has been put at rest by all your comments.

Cheers.

There's a guy who has just joined the forum he goes by the name of KEVAN.
Send him a PM with your query - he is an inventor and has recently developed a neat tremelo device. I'd be very suprised if he can't answer your query.
Search for "threads posted by Kevan" and you'll see what I mean.

Good Luck.

 

[francric]

Is a trem on a silo suppose to float?????????

 

[Roubster]

Well when it comes from the factory, it is NOT set up to float, and is probably much more stable flush with the body. However it definatly CAN be set up to float as the LUKE models are without piezos. After all the Luke has the same EXACT trem as do the Silos and ASSsssss. I personally like the vintage trem flush with the body, and will set the Luke up that way as well one I get it.

 

[Kevan]

I can't understand why people call me "Trem Boy". (Thanks Spud!)

Unequal strength springs= unequal LENGTH springs.

There are at least (3) different length trem springs out there (I'm not counting Jag, Steinb*rger, Kahl*r, St*tsbar, etc). In my shop, I have them in different bins: Short, Medium, & Long. Depending on the setup of the guitar- string gauge, trem config, etc.- I'll use the appropriate set of springs.

Is it bad to mix and match? Nah, but the fewer variables, the easier it is to diagnose issues. If you know both of your springs are the same, then you can get to the root of the problem quicker.

Will different length springs damage my guitar/trem system? Highly doubtful. Maybe over the course of a few hundred years the insert posts would begin to shift in the wood, but the trem itself would take a much longer time to 'warp'.

For a guitar that's built for dive-only, I'd recommend starting with (2) medium or short springs and working your way up from there.
If you're going for the float on a guitar that's capable of that, I'd recommend starting with (2) medium or long springs, and working your way up from there.

It sounds by your last post that you've gotten things pretty much taken care of, but if you need any other help, feel free to email or IM me. We'll get ya setup.

 

[blindlemonjeff]

we could use some pics of your silo cheers

Here is the suspect.

 

[Philip]

thanks!! that's a carbon blue?! it looks like a sapphire black from that pic

 

[Roubster]

I think it IS saphire black! Looks real nice too!!

 

[lenny]

very nice indeed!

 

[lenny]

I can't understand why people call me "Trem Boy". (Thanks Spud!)

Unequal strength springs= unequal LENGTH springs.

There are at least (3) different length trem springs out there (I'm not counting Jag, Steinb*rger, Kahl*r, St*tsbar, etc). In my shop, I have them in different bins: Short, Medium, & Long. Depending on the setup of the guitar- string gauge, trem config, etc.- I'll use the appropriate set of springs.

Is it bad to mix and match? Nah, but the fewer variables, the easier it is to diagnose issues. If you know both of your springs are the same, then you can get to the root of the problem quicker.

Will different length springs damage my guitar/trem system? Highly doubtful. Maybe over the course of a few hundred years the insert posts would begin to shift in the wood, but the trem itself would take a much longer time to 'warp'.

For a guitar that's built for dive-only, I'd recommend starting with (2) medium or short springs and working your way up from there.
If you're going for the float on a guitar that's capable of that, I'd recommend starting with (2) medium or long springs, and working your way up from there.

It sounds by your last post that you've gotten things pretty much taken care of, but if you need any other help, feel free to email or IM me. We'll get ya setup.

Thats awesome info Kev you summed it up quite nicely thanx ! its great to have a wealth of knowledge on the board

 

[blindlemonjeff]

Its just the flash. It messed up the colour. Its definatly got a blue-ish quality to it when you see it in person. There's also a subtle sparkle to the finish!

I'm quite upset tho - cos when I was changing dem springs, I slightly caught the back of the body with some pliers (dammit), causing a tiny, hair line scratch.

Is there any way of removing such small problems? Its my baby and I want to keep it perfect. Forever.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I can't understand why people call me "Trem Boy". (Thanks Spud!)

Trem boy now that conjures up in my mind a cool avatar.
Something that looks like a comic book superhero. lol!

Trem boy - good name for a trem invention ?
I'll go and copyright that now - better get wonderdog on the case LOL!
Spud"lampost flatener"Murphy (see OLP Bliss!!! ohh yeah thread)

 

[SteveB]

Trem Boy Ardee?

 

[Kevan]

Its just the flash. It messed up the colour. Its definatly got a blue-ish quality to it when you see it in person. There's also a subtle sparkle to the finish!

I'm quite upset tho - cos when I was changing dem springs, I slightly caught the back of the body with some pliers (dammit), causing a tiny, hair line scratch.

Is there any way of removing such small problems? Its my baby and I want to keep it perfect. Forever.

Some smaller/shallow scratches can be simply buffed out. I use Meguiars Scratch-X for these. Auto parts stores have a great selection of scratch remover/buffing compounds. Remember to test it out somewhere inconspicuous or on a friends guitar.

If the scratch is deep, try some cyanoacrylate (superglue) applied to the scratch via the tip of a toothpick.
- Build up the superglue, layer after layer, until it's taller than the original finish. This will take a while so be patient.
- Use a very fine sandpaper (1200 grit or above) to level off the built-up superglue.
- Use a very fine WET sandpaper (2000 grit or above) on the repaired area.
- Use Meguiars Scratch-X or similar compound and buff until the scratch is gone.

A great place to find cheap tools for clear coat touch-ups is the...*gulp*....nail polish department at your local supermarket. All sorts of great items for small, concentrated areas.
Don't BS the clerk when she gives you a questioning look at the check-out line. Say it loud and proud, "Oh, I have a hot date tonight so I want to look my best!"