Time is flying by and digital companies like Line 6 are getting closer and closer to perfecting those "ultimate" guitar tones which we all seek. Its reliable, cost effective and the tonal versatility is immense!! Im not saying digital modelling is entirely there yet but it is getting pretty damn close!! Will valves soon be a thing of the past??what do you think??
- Thread starter Danjp1928
- Start date
deadringer
Well-known member
Having just sold a Vetta and back with my Mesa's, I have to say, modeling still has a long way to go!
beej
Moderator
Man, it's a complicated question. In addition to tubes, you've got the dark arts of cabinet design and speaker selection. There's just so much involved to giving an amp a "unique" sound. (Especially the inconsistancies of old amps- the little squeaks, ghost tones, etc. that aren't really part of the design but just happen.)
Modelers are great for versatility, portability and ease-of-recording. I'd say right now they're pretty close in a wide range of situations.
Personally, I think it's inevitable that they'll be just as good - better - than tube amps.
Modelers are great for versatility, portability and ease-of-recording. I'd say right now they're pretty close in a wide range of situations.
Personally, I think it's inevitable that they'll be just as good - better - than tube amps.
tommyindelaware
Well-known member
Danjp1928 said:
now this this just the way my ears work...but......it seems to me that amp modeling seems to work real well in lower volume situations......living rooms.....& direct to board recording......but live .....at kickin drummer volume......or on big stages......things change drasticallly....
gotta have my 13 tube guytron !!!!!tubes behave themselves much better e.q. wise at higher volumes.....
fsmith
Well-known member
Tommy,
Was that the heavy SOB I kept in my truck for you during the Morse show?
fred
Was that the heavy SOB I kept in my truck for you during the Morse show?
fred
mhorse
Well-known member
Digital amps will never quite hit the tube perfomance due to the fact that digital signal processing is descrete, while proccess in the tubes isn't. And as you try to model continious process with more and more samples, the amount of resources you need to do it grows exponentially. Memory sizes and CPU speeds do not.
The other quiestion is whether digital will ever sound BETTER then tubes without modeling their characteristics - good quiestion, but the answer is probably no, because the benchmark is still tube driven
The other quiestion is whether digital will ever sound BETTER then tubes without modeling their characteristics - good quiestion, but the answer is probably no, because the benchmark is still tube driven
beej
Moderator
> that digital signal processing is descrete, while proccess in the tubes isn't.
So I guess we'd better chuck all of our DAT gear, CD & DVD players, etc?
So I guess we'd better chuck all of our DAT gear, CD & DVD players, etc?
tommyindelaware
Well-known member
fsmith said:Tommy,
Was that the heavy SOB I kept in my truck for you during the Morse show?
fred
45lb' off sweet buttery fat-ass tone bro !!!!!!!100watts
mhorse
Well-known member
beej said:> that digital signal processing is descrete, while proccess in the tubes isn't.
So I guess we'd better chuck all of our DAT gear, CD & DVD players, etc?
There are limitation to human perception, meaning after some point you just can't tell which is which. Encoding of audio is also much simplier process then emulating tubes or any analog gear. However, if you stop emulating, you can get somewhere interesting, which is largely happening with some effects. But when it comes to amps, it's seems like digital is hitting the wall of thinking inertia that I've mentioned.
Anyway, from what my ears hear, digital is not quite there yet.
deadringer
Well-known member
I think they've almost reached the point where hearing the difference is tough. The feel is what lost it for me and the Vetta. It sounded so right (even at higher volumes) but it just didn't "feel" right. It was like playing a solid state amp that sounded like tubes. I'm done with modelers until they can get closer on the feel. The sound and convience is very solid!
Well i think we all know there is no right or wrong arguement here, its entirely down to opinion and preferences. Each person has an idea of the tone he/ she likes and whichever amp delivers it, well then that is considered it to be the best. For me personally: ive had a marshall jcm2000tsl and a peavey 5150II and have tried numerous dual rectifiers but when i heard the vetta put through its paces at the northwest guitar show it won hands down, it really was very impressive. Cant wait for this digital stuff to progress further and make no mistake, it will do!!
Tu Be or not Tu Be : I put it this way. I haven´t heard one digital amp in a loud band situation sounding powerful and clear within the band sound.
If your a living room player and you can´t play too loud due to the neighbour or the wife)
go for a line 6- If your making serious gigs and rehearsals buy a good tube amp and your done. Buy with your ears not with your eyes.
Mick
If your a living room player and you can´t play too loud due to the neighbour or the wife
)go for a line 6- If your making serious gigs and rehearsals buy a good tube amp and your done. Buy with your ears not with your eyes.
Mick
koogie2k
Well-known member
I have had both. I currently use a Line 6 Vetta II and love it. I had a hard time finding my tone (my personal preference) with my Marshall. I looked and tried many tube amps. Most were outstanding amps.....just did not have what I wanted. I do not gig, so the Line 6 is best for me. If I ever do gig on a consistant basis, I would probably buy a tube amp. I have played one of shows, and the Line 6 worked great, but I personally feel a tube is the way to go when doing shows constantly.....my 2 pennies.
fsmith
Well-known member
I don't know if anyone here has caught the Trans-Siberian Orchestra on tour, but I've seen them the past 4 years and they play exclusively through Line 6 Pod Pro's and PA. Their one guitarist, Chris Caffery of Savatage fame uses a VOX Valvetone overdrive straight into into the Pod Pro, no amps. Sustain for days.
It may be digital, but their tone is incredible. So I know that you can get some nice tone at arena levels without a tube amp. I'd love to have some of his patches.
Just another stick to use as fuel for the debate...
fred
It may be digital, but their tone is incredible. So I know that you can get some nice tone at arena levels without a tube amp. I'd love to have some of his patches.
Just another stick to use as fuel for the debate...
fred
jimmyp
Well-known member
Sit on fence time - for gigging or jamming, TUBES! For pissing about in my bedroom, practice and recording, get the POD out. When cranked up though, there is nohing that moves air the way a good quality valve amp does, especially if you mostly play rock
Raz
Well-known member
Wow that's cool...I wonder what Chris Oliva used in the Savatage glory days, I loved his tone.fsmith said:
Well this is a very good discussion, and I think it all boils down to preference and resources. I mean not everyone has the cash to fund the purchase of a 2000.00 tube amp. For me tone was always an enigma (in my younger days). One day I would have tone, and the next day something totally different. These days I am so friggin happy with my tone and the possibilities of tone, and more importantly, the consistency...for this I have to thank my Behringer V-Amp 2.0. I have access to a mulitude of variable presets models, plus I can create unique ones as well...all for a measly 100.00. My advice to someone starting would be to purchase any one of the many modelling amps or the V-Amp or Pod Xt. Explore the different possibilities and enjoy. Sure tubes are tops, but hey there's a reason they created these modelling units, right?
fsmith
Well-known member
Raz said:
Hey Raz,
Check out this link. It has a lot of information about what Criss used...
http://www.savintage.com/criss/gear.htm
He did have a very nice tone. The boy could play his ass off too. It's a damn shame he was taken so early, I can only imagine what he'd be doing today.
fred
Raz
Well-known member
Agreed! I'm going to check that link...he had a very unique style, that not only stood out, but inspired us listeners!fsmith said:
Man that is cool...very informative...hey Mattias uses Laney also, and his tone RIPPPSSSS! Hmmmmm.....
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In my opinion, the bottom line is that I have never, ever met a modelling amp that could sound even remotely like my Deluxe Reverb. Period. And I've tried about all of them - even owned modelling gear made by most of the big guys (Line6, Yamaha, Tech21, Vox, Roland, Boss) in one form or another. Sure they do the job for practice drills and tune-up, but they just can't touch the real thing.
i say go with a vetta2 which is what i am currently using.
i have had alot of tube amps (mesa, marshall, fender, rivera, peavey, crate) and even though some of them did sound better than the vetta, the vetta is 98% there.
the vetta is way more versatile tha any tube amp and requires no maintenece.
in a live situation, i prefer the line 6 hd147 which is simple to use, sounds great, and is easy to transport. plus the different outs make it easy for the soundman to mix.
your audience can not tell the difference between tube or a ss amp.
i have had alot of tube amps (mesa, marshall, fender, rivera, peavey, crate) and even though some of them did sound better than the vetta, the vetta is 98% there.
the vetta is way more versatile tha any tube amp and requires no maintenece.
in a live situation, i prefer the line 6 hd147 which is simple to use, sounds great, and is easy to transport. plus the different outs make it easy for the soundman to mix.
your audience can not tell the difference between tube or a ss amp.
