tone support group needed.... please help!

[cold_lump]

hi guys. as some of you may know from recent posts im a fairly new bass player. i played guitar for 10 years previously and was also a sound engineer semi-professionally for 5 years. i know alittle bit about tone.
i was asked if i would be interrested in playing bass for a local act about 6-7 months ago and accepted. from the start i loved it. and when asked i immeadeatly knew the tone i wanted!
ampeg 810, svt 4 pro, and a stingray.
the modern tone; scooped mid, lots of highs ernie ball style, and rumbling lows. after investing a huge lot of money into the gear, i got whats listed above, and the tone i wanted was achieved easily. and i love it!!!!!!!
however, i just got off the phone with a fellow band member whos purpose in calling me was to "talk about your bass sound, its not fitting the music".
to be 100% honest, it doesnt really. we are a rock band, whos style ranges from smei ac/dc to oldies.
BUT:
ITS ALL ORIGINAL MUSIC!!!!!! SO CANT I SOUND HOWEVER I WANT? WE ARE NOT A COVER BAND, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE A VERY SHORT LIST OF COVERS THAT WE CAN PLAY IF NESSESARY.
anyway, no threats were made where i have to choose, changing the tone or hitting the road, but it pisses me off that he even had the guts to talk to me about it.
what should i do?
what would you do?
i spent alot on this gear to get a specific sound. for what they want i couldve gotten a peavey amp and a squire passive p-bass and been fine.
thanks for any help!!!

 

[midopa]

Well, as Sir Bovine would say, you gotta "serve the song." At first I enjoyed that scooped mids sound, too. However, I eventually came to the realization that I just can't play that tone the whole time whenever I play (I'm a church's praise team's bassist). It wouldn't hurt to change the tone, would it? I mean, you can always get it back again. The point is you can't have an unfitting tone playing loud in the background for a song - there are certain tones that usually have certain places in musical styles and genres. Granted, you always can somehow make a working mix.

 

[SWR_n_EB]

well, comprimise. i mean, describe ur sound. for me, a bass tone can be widely used, but there are guidlines. obviously u gotta have the right jazz tone if it's jazz, and slap u wanna ditch the mids, and there are many other examples. however, i feel that for rock, what's the issue? i mean, if u could describe ur sound a little more in depth, i could give u some feed back.

as we all know, the guitarist generally refers to us as his, and were refer to them as band mates. twhen my buddy introduces me, he refers to me as "this is my bassist", i found that amoung my bass playing buddies, we refer to the guitarist as "this is my buddy, i jam with him in a (insert style here). it's sick." he point is, i mean, is it only him with the issue???i'm having issues with the drummers lack of groove, and while i can try to do as i wish, it still doesn't feel smooth. i tried to talk it out, and he never listened, so after hte nxt 2 shows im out. if ur not having fun, as i am not, then go if u got a whinning guitar player

sorry had to describve hte update cuz i haven't bee naround for a long time.

 

[Kennyhoe]

Yea, that's the thing about the scooped mids sound. While it sounds great playing solo, it really doesn't mix well with a band. You actually want more mids to cut through. Weird, isn't it?

 

[Disquieter]

two words: EQ Pedal (well...one word and an abbr.)

set up your tone for the band, if you dig the music and dig the guys, then make your sound work for the band. it's like a job, you can't wear shorts to work when you need long pants, just as you can't use a scooped mids tone when you need solid punchy midrange. Your ampeg is capable of an amazing midrange, use it.

Use the pedal to give yourselfthe option of dumping the midrange for specific parts..


i forget, does the svt4 have the footswitch for the EQ?


joel D.

 

[spectorbassguy]

Sure it would have been great if they would have graciously approached you during a practice and said "Hey how about a little more bass, or can you try to get this kind of a sound......" you get the picture. Some times how you say something is MORE important than what you say. So I do understand your getting ticked off. But that's Rock 'n' Roll ain't it?

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is how much being in that band is worth to you. I've been in lots of rock bands over the years and most have ended with sore feelings among the band members. Heck the first hard rock band I was in was having rehearsals behind my back with a new bass player with MY GEAR because he could sing "You Shook Me All Night Long" just like AC/DC! Turns out that it was about the only thing he could do - I gave them 4 weeks notice and they were BEGGING me to stay in the band on our last weekend.

As far as your sound, IMO it is your job to make the sound fit the music. I guess if it were me I'd look to the songwriter(s) for advice on shaping the sound how they hear it in their head for that particular song. If everyone works together the music will click and if everyone doesn't it will eventually crumble.

Regarding the equipment, isn't that a good enough setup that you should be able to get a TON of sounds? I know that my Mesa rig can get a wide variation in tone, especially with a good bass.....Wait a second, I've got it! You need a BONGO!!!
Life is good in BongoLand!

Seriously good luck and let us know how you handle it.

 

[cold_lump]

hhmmmmm.....
alot to think about here. did i mention that in our area there is an extreme shortage of bass players? when i say extreme i mean that bands are actually asking experienced guitar players if they will convert just to fill the spot. thats how i got this gig remember...
does the beggers cant be choosers rule fall into play here?
i understand that scooped mid tone doesnt work well with all types of music. i agree with that. but we are an original song writing band. why cant i have the type of tone i want? wouldnt that help in developing a new sound in a band?
with 1200 watts continuous, i dont need mids to cut through the mix... i can hear just fine. and theres only one guitar to battle. its actually harder getting over the drummer than it is the guitar players 100 watt all tube vintage marshall half stack (that is also mine)
i would be willing to compromise on cover songs. it only makes sense to.
my other bass playing friend told me this:
"now is your chance to play the benchmark in superior tone in squire. i think in this situation you should weigh the options and the consequences. if you stick to your tone there is the possibilitiy of getting crap from your mates about it or perhaps even getting the boot. if you change, you have possibility of sounding like a baffoon. i think sounding like a "steam roller" probably isnt the best sound for what your mates are going for, but i say screw it. do what you want. if they dont like it, they can find a 10 year old to play for them. "
in the last sentence he was mentioning what i had already told you of the shortage of bass players of age and abillity with equipment around our area.
anyway any more opinions are greatly appreciated. positive or negative. i really need to think about this as im sure this conversation isnt over between me and the drummer, (who has a crappy sounding $2000 Spaun custom drumset, that i have never once told him sounds bad)
thanks for your replies, please keep em comming!

 

[Disquieter]

you want an opinion?

ok, heres the opinion.

i could forge new ground in music by playing in a sped metal band only using a chapman stick and a jews harp, both especially great instruments and tones in their own right, but neither fitting to metal music.

While i'm all for experimentation, if you are playing a specific kind of music, and you can admit (as you did), that the tone doesn't fit the music. then don't use that tone for that music.

Forge new ground with your playing, scooping your mids and sounding "different" is not going to turn any heads or make people say "wow, his mids are amazingly lacking!" (or will it?...).

So what i'm saying is this: Get over your "perfect tone", because it doesn't work in the project you are doing, if you can't do that, get out of the group, and find one that wants your tone..


Being in a band is compromise, you all bend and shift until everyone is happy, if you can't accomodate your band mates and come to a good rational conclusion on tone, then you should not be in the band, because it's not going to work out when one member refuses to work with the others.


I'm speaking from the limited perspective i have on the situation, for all I know, your guitar player could be the biggest douchebag in the world (why let him use your marshall stack then?), but as far as i know, he's approaching you regarding somethign he's unsatisfied with in the band. Better that than wait till your gone and talk trash about you with the drummer.


There is my opinion, take it as you will. If you want to disregard it go ahead, it's just one man speaking from experience.

thanks and I hope everything works out.
Joel D.

 

[spectorbassguy]

"now is your chance to play the benchmark in superior tone in squire."

I don't know what this means but I sure hope he's not saying to play the "F-Word" Budget bass

 

[cold_lump]

disquieter,
i really appreciate your honesty. and it all makes sense.
its actually the drummer who is approching me about this. i just dont know yet if its the guitar player who put him up to it or not.
at any rate, i dont always agree with everything they do, but i never say anything. perhaps its "band meeting" time for some stuff to come out on the table.

spectorbassguy,
yes he ment the F-word budget bass.
meaning if i wanted ac/dc tone, i wouldve bought a squire bass and a peavey amp and joined a cover band.

 

[Psychicpet]

Hi cold lump,
ya, you're fully getting to experience being the bassist! Just wait until you lay down some great lines for somebody's project then listen to how they've buried you in the mix...
Seriously though, you do have the means to come up with alot of tonal variation with your rig and as for the drummer asking you to change your tone... flip it man, don't give it the power!! bring it up jokingly at the next rehearsal, swallow your pride and say ok so here's the sitchell mitchell... yadda yadda yadda, ask for their input on your tone in an "eager/happy" manner. Start by zeroing the eq on your Ampeg and StingRay and then go from there. Really try to "lay your tone down" for them and I'll bet ya that within 2 months of your next rehearsal/shows you'll be getting alot more calls to play in alot more bands. It sucks but when the guys you're working for/with start gettin' wood over your tone then you can get away with all the notes and grooves you want!!
cheers and happy humble pie eatin' !

pete

ps. a character sandwich and a poop sandwich taste EXACTLY the same! hehehehe

 

[Moondog]

Hi cold lump,
ya, you're fully getting to experience being the bassist! Just wait until you lay down some great lines for somebody's project then listen to how they've buried you in the mix...

Ha, been there!
& if your band does studio, make a point of being present during mixing - or your track risks being reduced to an ant fart (re-mixing/mastering sucks).

 

[spectorbassguy]

Hi cold lump,
ya, you're fully getting to experience being the bassist! Just wait until you lay down some great lines for somebody's project then listen to how they've buried you in the mix...

Or REPLACED them with another bass player. I've had that happen, not in a band I was a member of but when I was recording for a solo artist that had rented studio time. I thought the groove was cool and found out later that I might as well have been playing the theme from "Casper The Friendly Ghost!"

 

[SWR_n_EB]

pshycic has the right idea. i mean, ppl dont give bass player any credit. ill take in a song, and it ll turn into sumthing entirely different, but thats; the same point i made earlier, were aren't the ceter of the band. personally, i dont care, but its a fact of a bassist's life. right as i began talking about adding an extension, my guitar player responded with wanting a marshall stack....keep in mind, he would have more watts than me.....and u cant hear me any ways!

so u have cut mids? consider urself lucky that someone said sumthing, that means they have some taste, and to be honest, coming from a drummer, thats good. my drummer doesn't know **** about music. his thoery is "lets just play" added mids can sound tight though.

its funny, cuz im the one least satisfied with my tone, cuz i dont have enuff mid punch, and niether do u! w00t!

 

[LeftyLB]

I agree with the compromise angle.

At least be prepared to talk to them openly about it. I would not let it fester as things would only get worse. If the drummer felt confident enough to address the issue with you personally, rather than just bitching about you to the others behind your back, then I think that it is a compliment to you.

Get it out in the open, discuss and agree the sound that is required from everyone and not just you. Once you agree what is the required "band" sound, then you can make a decision whether you will enjoy playing in the band going forward.

Good luck

Lb

 

[Soulfinger]

"but we are an original song writing band. why cant i have the type of tone i want? wouldnt that help in developing a new sound in a band?"

That would be fine if this was the "Cold Lump solo project".

It's certainly the right, and also the responsibility of your band mates to comment on your sound. Since they're a step away from the action, their perspective on sound could be vastly differernt from yours. Remember, your trying to create a cohesive product here (good music). However, whatever they recommend, you have the right to respetfully disagree.

Playing music takes a lot of teamwork.

 

[cold_lump]

.....well, believe it or not, without telling the drummer, i pulled the lows by one notch, boosted the mid by 2 notches, and he noticed immeadatly. he stopped in at the begining of the first song and was like "you sound better, what did you do?" i just told him that i tried to find a sound we could both like. he was happy and i am too. it wasnt a drastic difference, and it shut him up. all is well. thanks for your help guys!