Question Trem setup - what affects the "stiffness"

[banjoplayer]

I actually own three guitars with Music Man Vintage Trems: SUB1, Reflex and my new (used) SBMM Cutlass

All three guitars have a very similar setup (similar neck relief, similiar action, strings are 10s on all) and the trem is also setup in the same way: 3 springs, straight (one in the middle and one on every outer side). The screws that hold the claw are screwed in so far that the trem just sits on the top of the guitar and only downbends are possible.

On the SUB1 the trem bar can be pushed dowwn very softly, on the Cutlass it´s rather stiff, the Reflex is somewhere in between.

Why? Same setup..?!

I´d like to have it as soft as on the SUB1 but if I loose the back screws on the Cutlass or the Reflex, the Trem is immediately going to float. I don´t want that.

Does it make a difference if the springs itself are soft or stiff? Or does just the amount of force matter - springs vs strings?

I need some input + starting point please. Thanks!

 

[DrKev]

Once the trem is sitting on the top and only downbends are possible you can add additional tension on the springs without seeing any further change in the trem. To avoid excessive backwards pull on the bridge, set the trem/springs so that the bridges just barely move during a 2-fret bend. Then they should all feel pretty similar when bending or with the trem arm assuming the springs are similar strength, which they may not be.

You could remove all 9 springs and try to judge them for strength by bending or puling them and see if you can equal total spring strength in each guitar (by mixing one soft, one medium, one hard for each guitar). If the spring s are identical and set identically, the bridge block and trem claws should be similar distances apart.

 

[mikeller]

I've experienced that too. My Luke 3's trem with 3 springs are less stiff than a few other of my guitars (see sig) with 3 springs. All similar setups - floating, same strings etc.

One was so stiff I wound up putting in Raw Vintage Springs to loosen it up a bit.

 

[banjoplayer]

Thanks for your input. This is a starting point:

You could remove all 9 springs and try to judge them for strength by bending or puling them and see if you can equal total spring strength in each guitar (by mixing one soft, one medium, one hard for each guitar). If the spring s are identical and set identically, the bridge block and trem claws should be similar distances apart.

Additional question: Once the trem sits on the top - does it make a difference if the spring is soft or hard or does just the amount of force matter with which the string pulls - which in this case is equal or more than the force of the strings. Thinking about this but can´t solve it in my head

 

[DrKev]

From the point of view of fingers/string bending, once the springs are tightened so that the bridge doesn't move when bending, it will always feel the same as a fixed bridge guitar (it's the motion of the bridge when string bending that determines how hard or soft it feels to our fingers. That's the same as your springs = or > force of the strings.

For trem diving, stiffer springs (or more screwed in) will make it stiffer to dive the trem.

 

[banjoplayer]

For trem diving, stiffer springs (or more screwed in) will make it stiffer to dive the trem.

That was my point. Thanks Dr.! Will try softer springs

 

[kbaim]

what affects the "stiffness".

Not that this is helpful but i'd also add.
-Alcohol
-Depression
-Some prescription medication
-Certain illnesses

 

[beej]

Nyuck nyuck

 

[fbecir]

what affects the "stiffness".

Not that this is helpful but i'd also add.
-Alcohol
-Depression
-Some prescription medication
-Certain illnesses

Are you suggesting that some blue pills can solve BanjoPlayer's Tremolo problems ?

 

[banjoplayer]

I have been waiting for that