"Vintage-" and "modern" sounds

[menvafaan]

Hello,

I thought of this today. Lots of people talk about "vintage" and "modern" sounding instruments and amps. But what exactly defines vintage and modern in this sense? What do people mean when they use those terms to describe a guitar sound?

When I hear someone say "it's a modern sounding instrument", the only thing I can think of is post-80's high gain distortion sounds. Is that all there is to it? That "modern" is the high gain sound of Pantera and "vintage" is the overdriven sound of Led Zeppelin? But what about the clean territory?

Please give sound and/or video examples of both!

People often seem to place EBMM instruments in the "modern" category. Some vintage geeks I talked to told me that "oh, that Music Man thing is just a phase!". Yeah right!

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I suppose that a Twin breaking up could be classed as Vintage, and a super scooped high gain sound could be classed as modern. But I think anything else is open to discussion!

 

[Spudmurphy]

Tim - that is a great description.
I think ya nailed it !!

 

[robelinda2]

I thinks its a load of crap. Just play.

 

[adouglas]

I thinks its a load of crap. Just play.

I would have to agree with you.

I play a Bongo, which is about as "modern" as it gets. I play it through a Bose L1, which is equally "modern."

Have a listen to the bass tone on this clip....

Sounds pretty "vintage" to me.....

http://www.coolshoesband.com/audio/090220IFeelGood.mp3

Apologies for the lame toy-like keyboard sound...we can't afford a good keyboard right now.

 

[Astrofreq]

I think vintage instruments usually refers to Gibson, Fender, Gretch, anything old. Newer companies would be considered modern, I guess. I think the sound depends more on the amp than the guitar personally.

 

[fbecir]

Vintage and Modern are nice Marketing words that mean ... nothing and everything at the same time.
A vintage amp will be a one channel tube amp. A modern amp will be a multi-channel beast with an integrated coffee machine. But in term of sound, you can achieve modern sound with a classic amp and get some nice vintage sound with a modern amp.

 

[beej]

In the general context, the terms help you explain tones, I'd say. "The guitars in that tune have more of a modern sound".

To me, in terms of guitar sounds, we're talking mids. "Vintage" tones tend to be more mid-heavy - the classic Fender, Marshall, Vox sounds. "Modern" tones tend to be more mid-scooped, the scooped Mesa recto sound.

Obviously they lose their context when you're talking specifics. Same with any generalization.

 

[fogman]

i agree beej

 

[dmkozak]

The older you are, the farther back you have to go to get a "vintage" sound.

 

[travs]

playing my Al in low volumes super clean "Buddy Holly" tone thru my Vox is vintage. aka Therapy. At times I would like to try a Modern sound...If my fingers can even produce a modern tone.

 

[whitestrat]

to me Vintage = OD and a bit of distortion. Think John Mayer/SRV. Modern = High Gain. Think Alterbridge, Evanescence.

 

[D.K.]

My two words on that :

To me this distinction, as theoretical and stupid as it actually is, is more a matter of a playing technique, the choice of a scale and the amount of up-front effects in the signal chain. For instance, bendy and bluesy slowhand playing for me is almost always associated with "vintage" (think Gilmour, sometimes Clapton) - even if You do it in high gain, it still is recognisible as such.

If, on the other hand, You have a lot of different scales, tonal jumps, extreme slides - than even the oldest strat in the clean channel of a 1970's fender amp won't sound vintage (think Steve Vai's "Tender Surrender" before the high gain part starts).

The same goes for the amount of effects - "vintage" oriented playing/recording gives You more the unprocessed sound of the guitar itself, modified lightly by the effects. Modern, again, would be a lot of clearly audible effects (since many modern-style pickups are made exactly to sound great with effects, while lacking something without), often with a lot of compression.

BTW, I think the amount of compression is the key factor to how "vintage" the high gain tone actually is.

 

[ivanmihaljevic]

I thinks its a load of crap. Just play.

+1
Find a sound that suits the song to your ears and it doesn't matter if it's vintage or modern...

 

[candid_x]

I don't think it's a load of crap. I think it's a perfectly legitimate question, even if there may not be one simple cut and dry answer that satisfies everyone.

I generally associate under-wound pickups as producing a thinner and more vintage sound, while over-wound pickups produce a thicker (more modern) sound. I perceive it opposite of what Beej said, in that under-wound pickups have a brighter high and low end, and the mids aren't as full. As pickups are wound more, mids gets thicker and predominant, and as a result go into overdrive/distortion more readily, which could be considered a more modern sound.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I never analyse what I have played whether it was played in a Vintage style or modern style.

I think the original post starting this thread was just asking what we considered to be a vintage or modern guitar sound, and was a valid question asking our opinions on trying to define a term banded about in many music publications.

I thought this would turn out to be an interesting thread due to the age span of forum members?

I think to call it crap is a bit strong - but I guess that the typed word is often taken out of context on an e-forum.

To me a vintage sound was the sound of the late 60's early seventies - Les Paul/Fender straight into a Marshall/Fender/Vox/Hiwatt/Orange/Sound City.

The modern guitar sound (to me) is exactly as Tim explained it, and I would be very interested to hear people's opinion on the question asked.
For example, what Candid and Beej have said I think, adds relevant info to the thread which I feel was Menafaan's intention.

 

[candid_x]

The way I interpret what Beej said is that as amps became higher gain, scooping the mids is what got into the whole brown sound, and from there into high gain. But it's the higher output pickups (with tons of mid drive) that drive an amp with the mids pulled back out. So, adding mids from the guitar/pickups, then scooping them out at the amp. It's sorta like running through a TS type pedal, adding heavy mid gain, then pulling them out at the amp --- power, and distinctly not "vintage"... imo.

 

[JP7Nomad]

I think vintages tones are characteristically more fat than a modern tone. I don't necessarily think it means high gain, since you could easily have a modern clean tone.

 

[lenny]

in my Opinion Vintage would be as Candid X said underwound/classic wound pups threw 20 feet of coily cable into an amp, a nice open airy sound......thats it just guitar and cable and an amp...one that will overdrive easy......a modern sound the way i hear it is more processed ,compressed and LOUD......"the death of hi fidelity" ....go read it ...great article


you can get Modern out of vintage gear and vintage out of modern gear ...you just need the right tools