Vintage guitars vs. EBMM guitars

[menvafaan]

I talked to a vintage-nut the other day. He showed me and let me play some old strats and teles, through a just-as-old Twin Reverb amp. And man, those instrument felt awesome, and the tone just kicked ass! My intentions was to go in there for 5 minutes to take a quick look, but I got stuck for like 90 minutes. I asked the guy what he thought about the EBMM guitars, and how they measured up to those vintage instruments.

He explained that he thought that the EBMMs were top notch quality instruments, that sounded "mature" from the start, due to the fine craftsmanship. But he also said that they don't age that well, compared to vintage strats, for example.

So he basicly said that new Fenders are crap, EBMMs are awesome instruments for being new, but that they can't measure up to a well-aged quality vintage strat or tele.

Comments?

 

[phatduckk]

all subjective. some like apples, some orange and some tangerines. live n let live and play what speaks to you...

either way... no MM has yet reached the ripe old age of 40. lets revisit this in a couple decades.

 

[PugNinjas]

I can't wait to hear some of the responses to this thread

 

[robelinda2]

Well, obviously everyone here loves their balls. I get to play vintage strats and Les Pauls every week, at least 6 of my students have vintage guitars, and all 6 of them spend the whole lesson crapping on about how much its worth. Personally, I like certain aspects of the vintage guitars, but they have to be playable, one guy wont even have his strat setup in case it loses value, talk about stupidity. I love my AL's and Silo Specials because they play amazingly well and inspire me daily. I get the tone I want without the huge price tag.

 

[Smellybum]

As investments vintage guitars are amazing, I have gibsons that I paid pennys for and have then sold for double. - increase in value faster than gold,
But I don't see vintage guitars on the same field as balls.

Why do we all play balls?, something different, something, with great feel and tone before you plug it in, killer sounds, killer finishes, unique CS model (that actually give a sh*t) great owner and staff.... But every ball i've bought, looked at or heard, I don't see as an investment, in fact if you look at used prices from a financial investment point of view they're probably not a good choice,

But as guitars (i.e. what they're built and marketted as) - they're ticking all the boxes!

So in short if you want a vintage guitar, I think you should be doing it for the money, and as such Balls (As Phatty rightly pointed out) aren't of the age for vintage criteria yet in the true sense, EVH's are starting to get there I think (and you're only talking 1991- so that's what 17 years? - ) but buy to play 'em if you want to make money speak to your broker and get some bonds!

 

[Ang3lus]

i recently bought a new fender, and let my EBMM JP sit in the corner for a week or so, then i got tired of the fender sound and took my JP back.

i'll never go back to fender again (well i'll only be a sinner once in a while)
it made me super-reappriciate the build and craftsmanship of this guitar, i was thinking of maybe getting a suhr to replace my fender, but now i'm thinking in terms of a silo with a H/S/H config, i don't think you can go wrong with that

and for vintage guitars, they do add up to a price, and some don't sound as good as people make out them to be.
but it's like todays guitars, some are good some are bad, i played new les pauls that were AWESOME and two les paul ultimas which were mediocre (but the looks of them guitars were beyond mesmerizing).

from my own experience, every guitar has its amp and effect boxes, i don't like my fender with my marshall clone as much as i love it with my seymour duncan convertible amp but i don't like the EBMM thru my seymour duncan but through the marshall clone.... tone-god.

about the statement that they don't age as well, only time will tell, i think they will sound as good as the first day you got them (and still be in tune), AND to add that no one makes a better floating bridge than EBMM (the JP trem = no other bridge ever).

and what i thought about old fenders and gibsons, they sound great yeah, but you can't seem to play them for more than one hour, your hands feel really wokred out and numb, i once played my petrucci for 7 hours non stop till my hands felt the same.

EBMM = best money can buy, best hardware, best electronics, best balance between woods and the best looks

 

[Spudmurphy]

Vintage guitars v EBMM

Interesting discussion.

Q. Why would a vintage guitar be better than a new EB?

For example, Was there a better standard of craftsmanship in the 50's?
better wood? better electrical components? would a hand scatter wound pickup be better than it's modern equivalent?

Does ageing produce a better timbre in the timber?

or is it just the fact that the person owning a vintage instrument feels one up on his peer who only has a modern axe?

I have a 30's acoustic that was considered very expensive in it's day - is it better than a modern guitar? - no it's not. A modern guitar is easier to play, has a better set up and in some cases a better sound.
Albert Lee says the same about his vintage acoustics.

Do I prefer my 70's,battered Les Paul - no I prefer my AL.

I have seen the "insides" of a lot of vintage Strats/ Teles when hanging around for the last 30 years in my mates guitar workshop - and sometimes the craftsmanship makes you wince! Modern manufacturing processes can produce consistently good results and EB have it "down to a T". Talking of which ... wanna drive a Model T - or a Porsche?

Amps can be the same - I was hankering after an old MM amp. When I compared it to it's modern counterpart - there was no comparison - the MM was blown out of the water.

The laws of supply and demand will regulate the price of a product and there seems to be a lot of people these days "putting away" guitars in the hope that their investment will reap them a massive reward? - I don't think that will be the case because of the higher numbers being put away.
There will always be the exception - gold EVH's Black EVH's - but this again, comes back to supply and demand - there's not many of them, - if a lot of people want them, - price rockets.

Guitars are cool to collect - but playing wise - give me a modern EB.

Anyone wanna buy my BCB AL ....






.... in 2060?

 

[tommyindelaware]

i been playin gigs since the mid sixties. if old strats/teles played & sounded better...........thats what i would be playin.

 

[Astrofreq]

In a nutshell, I like 'em both, but I can afford Music Man (sometimes).

I've definitely played some old Fenders that were fabulous, but the price tag was through the roof. I have an '81 Strat and I love it, but I've also played plenty of terrible new Fenders. But, I know a guy that has a newer one that is great and I enjoy playing on it. I like it because it's different than the Axis guitars I have. Those are still my main ax.

 

[Spudmurphy]

But, I know a guy that has a newer one that is great and I enjoy playing on it. I like it because it's different than the Axis guitars I have. Those are still my main ax.

picking up on that point - I have a friend who owns a mexican Strat - fabulous guitar!!! and outplays his American Strat - but I guess that's going "off thread" - sorry!

 

[Astrofreq]

In support of EB guitars, I must point out that a good recent strat is a rarity. Most of them I've played didn't seem to be worth half what they were charging, as opposed to EB, which is completely consistent.

 

[whitestrat]

Are Ferrari's better than Lamborghinis?

I tend to see vintage instruments as Ferraris, and EBMMs as Lamborghinis. A vintage ferrari like an old 308 or a Dino can fetch a pretty penny on the markets, but hardly anyone goes for a Uracco or a Miura... But is the Dino superior to a Miura? I doubt it.

Ok, maybe the Miura does still have a cult following. But I digress...

But to pit a modern day Lamboghini Gallardo against a Ferrari 328GTB? Honestly, I'd say they're both awesome, but totally different animals. The 328 is a great car because it's old. It's got no driver aids and no fancy stuff. It's just you, the steering wheel, 4 wheels and an engine. You need to know how to drive to take advantage of one, or it'll kill you. But once you tame it, it's rewarding to drive. Just like a well played vintage instrument. It's been through so much, it's just nice to hold one, and could be amazing to play. Mojo, they call it.

But take a New Gallardo for example. You'd have to be a really bad driver to crash one. It's so intelligent, it's smarter than most of their owners! Is it rewarding to drive? Of course it is... It's E-Gear technologies and driver aids make the car a joy to take round the track! But is it any inferior to the 328? I don't think so. Just different rewards. Just like an EBMM.

And as for EBMMs not aging well? I wouldn't know. We haven't gotten to 30 years ahead to see if the guitars that we know of today are still killer. Though I think they would still be.

A lot of the vintage instrument hype has to do with the market value of the instruments. Many people still equate the price = quality notion. They think a $30,000 Fender Strat has GOT to be a great player, since it's so expensive, and old. But is this really the case? Not to me. I've played vintage instruments... From 58s to 73s... And they're like Fenders today, still a hit and miss scenario... Some are great, some are okay, and some are BAD. (actually, the same applies to vintage ferraris...)

But not EBMM... The product consistency is so strong, I'd buy them blind... (in fact, I did! twice!)

 

[Astrofreq]

I would say that EB's appreciate with time. Look at my green EVH for example.

 

[Big Poppa]

GUys lets try to keep this from a strat bashing. Strats are standard bearers. give them their props.

The issue I have is because someone owns old guitars he can tell you how new guitars are going to age? Maybe he should use these special skills for global warming or something more usefull. I think that comment is so full of bull crap.

 

[Astrofreq]

The issue I have is because someone owns old guitars he can tell you how new guitars are going to age?

Well put.

 

[ShaneV]

As others have said, no EBMM has gotten old enough to judge how it will age yet.

The only fair way to compare would be a time machine loaded with strats and teles just bought in the early 60s and brought to 2008 vs. a new Ernie Ball. Personally, I go with the EB.

For my money, Ernie Ball is the only company that has been able to successfully meld the classic and the innovative. Most companies either still do things the way they were done 40 or 50 years ago (mistakes and outdated ideas and all) while resting on their laurels, or strive to make so many unnecessary innovations solely for the sake of being different that they lose sight of what those 40 and 50 year old designs did have right the first time around. Ernie Ball is right in the middle, keeping the best of the old, and fixing what was broken.

 

[shredderbetter]

here's my take owning vintage and new,I like both but I always try to look at it like this ,your going on vacation from new york to cali~SLO of course~are you going to jump in your 69' camaro wilh 75,000 miles nice a looker and fast ~ or you going to get into your honda 07' model??I think you'd be a fool to think the first they both do the job~ one is way more user freindly for the mainstream and a lot more peice of mind with keep up and reliability !I've played and owned lot's of guitars vintage is a good investment and ok to play but don't listen to the hype they have more issues with tuning and electronics then the newer counterparts do! Nothing against old school but the technology and overall quality control changes for the better some companies embrace it and still use quality components some like to use it to shortchange users and make things disposable,it's up to the end user to see what's right for them!
GIVE ME THE EBMM!

 

[fatoni]

vintage is only cool because its contemporary counterpart generally sucks. so i dont think ebmms will become classics because i have a hard time seeing this company ever putting out crap.

supply and demand has nothing to do with quality so use that to your advantage. i bought a '93 made in japan ibanez s470 for half the price of a new korean model. people are stupid

 

[SteveB]

I'm going to predict that MM guitars won't age as well as some other older brands, because they will have been played a hell of a lot more during their lifetimes.

If you can find one that hasn't been played down to the bone, it will probably be in perfect playing condition.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I think BP is correct in stopping this becoming a Fender/Gibson bashing thread.

My Les Paul played a big part in my playing life and I'll keep it - it's a good 'un and I like it - but I now tell everybody that I believe the quality sound and playability of the AL leaves it standing.

I wont bash the Gibson or Fender guitar - I have madee it known in the past the problems I had with the Gibbie in it's early life but I wont bash it because of them.

Some people who own these vintage guitars are afraid to play them live - take Dave Edmunds and his Gibbie 335 dot for example.

I don't know how many people are out there paying the really top dollar for these guitars, - I have seen some rarities for sale that don't get sold.

I would also be afraid to take a "rare" guitar" as a real example seeing some of the forgeries about - thank god I have pics taken back in the 70's proving the provenance of my Les Paul.

I for one will not be paying 10,000's of pounds for a vintage. - I rather get a global warming guitar instead (I wish!!)