What are the Pros and Cons of shimming the neck?

[Roubster]

I was just wondering if there are more along the lines of cons of doing this. I am guessing that shimming the neck will allow you to have very low action. However there must be some cons tone wise? And what WOULD exactly be the reason to shim a neck?

 

[blackspy]

It just changes the neck angle. Allowing you to get the upper frets closer to the strings, or farther away. Important on a non-floating floyd rose equipped guitar. Once the bridge is as low as you can get it, if you're wanting to have even lower action all you can do is try shimming.

Some say there's a little bit of tone loss, but I don't believe it really. The shims are so minute ( a little makes a big a difference ) that there's not much difference. Most of the wood on wood contact is still made, and the screws are still through it the same way. You can make hardwood shims too, the tone snobs usually say that's the only acceptable way to do it. Not plastic or paper.

 

[hbucker]

I doubt there are too many drawbacks to a slight shim since Axis' come from the factory one.

The reason to do it is to lower your action when you can't lower the bridge saddles any more. Shimming slightly raises the base of the neck, thus lowering the nut by a proportionally greater amount. A slight shim will make a big difference.

I've shimmed a couple of guitars and have seen / heard no tonal impact. As long as the shim is made of a hard material: wood, plastic or metal, it will transfer vibrations just fine. It only takes a thin thin thin shim to make a big difference though. So thin that looking at the neck pocket with the neck installed, you can't really even tell it's there.

 

[Raz]

Pros: It's fun and educational

Cons:
It's work and time away from playing.

I shimmed my Pet not for lower action reasons but to increase the space between the pups and the strings. Ive also shimmed two other guitars...it's very satisfying

 

[Spudmurphy]

It just changes the neck angle. Allowing you to get the upper frets closer to the strings, or farther away. Important on a non-floating floyd rose equipped guitar. Once the bridge is as low as you can get it, if you're wanting to have even lower action all you can do is try shimming.

Some say there's a little bit of tone loss, but I don't believe it really. The shims are so minute ( a little makes a big a difference ) that there's not much difference. Most of the wood on wood contact is still made, and the screws are still through it the same way. You can make hardwood shims too, the tone snobs usually say that's the only acceptable way to do it. Not plastic or paper.

I was of the same opinion until my buddy and I started messing about with guitars
recently. Read a few articles by Dan Erlewine and Buzz Feiten who are firm believers that a guitars tone changes depending on whether there is/is not a shim.
We tried different shimming material - wood and engineers brass shimstock and there was a definate change in the tone of the guitar.

Just my two pence worth.
Spud

 

[jeffrey]

Honestly? I hate shims and refuse to use them.

I've noticed drastic differences in tone in shimmed and non-shimmed guitars.

When shimming, even with a very thin one, you are levering the neck up off the body.

Unless you cut a wedge that fills the entire neckpocket and maintains 100% contact, I firmly believe it will effect tone and sustain.

I'd sooner get a neck pocket routed out to the proper angle before I'd shim a neck.

 

[bluebullet]

i noticed no tone difference in mine and the improvement in action was well worth the effort.

 

[blackspy]

I've read the Erlwine articles as well, and his take on it. I remain unconviced. Depending on the shim of course. Some are done well, and others aren't. For the most part though the change in tone by the addition of thin bit of plastic or whatever is miniscule if any. Even if you did a scientific measurement of frequency, I doubt you'd see much difference.

Then again, I've heard some guitar players can differentiate the difference in battery voltage, or even brands by ear, so who knows. Maybe some guys can hear such differences. I don't think I can. Especially when I crank it up.

 

[hbucker]

I agree. And most shims are so thin it would be impossible to angle them like a wedge. Seriously, the width of a thin guitar pick can make a huge difference in setup. And with a shim like this, I don't believe the tone changes.

Obviously EBMM doesn't either or they wouldn't use them.

 

[Big Poppa]

Roubster
you are obsessed with the lowest action.....I think that you should relax just a tad...

I disagree with both buzzy feiten and erliwine. It is no difference shimmed vs not shimmed. Eric johnson claims to hear the difference in a plated plug vs a brass plug and I dont believe that to be a factor in tone either.

 

[beej]

I'd sooner get a neck pocket routed out to the proper angle before I'd shim a neck.

Whoa, that's pretty extreme, dude. I'd sooner have a shim, myself.

Totally don't think one can hear the difference. And amplified, it's even more unlikely.

I do like Erlewine's point about making a shim the whole size of the pocket, though- his take on it is that with a small shim you've got a lot of pressure in one spot and can eventually lead to humps on the upper end of the fretboard. While I've never seen this on a guitar, I have seen it on a bass or two and it scared the bejesus out of me!

 

[Roubster]

Hey BP, not really about the lowest action. I'm just trying to get as much information as possible about set ups and what can be done on a guitar. I particularly am not looking to get the neck shimmed unless it has to be. However I am stil having some buzzing problems all over the fretboard when I hit the strings harder, AND the action is basically how it came from the factory. Well I am going to my local techs today and see what they can tell me and do. And I am pretty relaxed, just dont like much when I hear a little buzzing coming through the amp.

 

[beej]

Huh, that's funny, 'cause I loved being buzzed. Oh wait ... you were talking about something else ...

 

[jeffrey]

Whoa, that's pretty extreme, dude. I'd sooner have a shim, myself.

Not me. IMO a band-aid is not a fix. It's duct tape for a manufacturing flaw. Were the guitar (any guitar; no I'm not referring specifically to EB's ) built correctly (ie: the angle in the neck pocket right) a shim would not be necessary.

I prefer permanant solution's rather than band-aid's.

Aside from that, it's an easy route with a good jig.

 

[peat]

I shimmed my Pet not for lower action reasons but to increase the space between the pups and the strings. Ive also shimmed two other guitars...it's very satisfying

raz why didnt you just lower your pickups?

 

[Roubster]

I already put 10s on the Silo marillion-freak. I definatly dont want to and dont think I need to go higher than that. I went to the techs today, and the guy said there is a slight hump around the 12th fret, and a slight back bow, but nothing terrible. I'll see a bit later today how it went, and hopefully they will do a good job. UNfortunatly I could not be there to watch them because of their supposed insurance policy and also cuz I have work. I'm just going to get myself the Erlewine book and study that to get better at seting up me geetars so that I dont have to soil out 100 bucks for a damn set up. Well anyway, I'll let you people know what's up tonight.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Roubster
you are obsessed with the lowest action.....I think that you should relax just a tad...

On this I totally agree. My Les Paul has a ridiculously low action and you can't get so much feel into your playing. It makes it difficult to "dig in" and give the strings some Welly ala Kossoff. I'm going to have to raise the action some day.

Roubster
I disagree with both buzzy feiten and erliwine. It is no difference shimmed vs not shimmed. Eric johnson claims to hear the difference in a plated plug vs a brass plug and I dont believe that to be a factor in tone either.

On this one I (respectfully) disagree with the "Master".
I didn't believe the articles I read in Earle Whine's book myself (he does seem a bit anal)until we messed about shimming/unshimming blah blah blah.
We both noticed a marked difference.... and my ears are shot after standing too long infront of a Marshall !!!

 

[hbucker]

Obviously it can depend on the kind of shim, size, thickness, where it's put, etc. But with the thin shims I've used there has been no tonal difference.

 

[nobozos]

So, the problem with the "anti-shimmers" here seems to be that, when you shim, you lose contact between the neck and the body in the neck pocket. That is an easy fix. after you have determined the thickness of the shim required to make your guitar the way you want it, use a good wood glue in the neck pocket. This will fill any minute voids created by the shim, and will harden, and make contact pressure better than with even a non-shimmed neck.

 

[jongitarz]

I gotta go with Sterling on this. Do not fear the shim. The only system I do not like is Fenders screw adjuster. On that one, the heal of the neck is sitting on a bolt. Not good IMO. But a .020 shim between the neck and body? No problem.