What are the Pros and Cons of shimming the neck?

[Raz]

raz why didnt you just lower your pickups?

You can't on the Pet, they're directly mounted to the body...

jongitarz I gotta go with Sterling on this. Do not fear the shim. The only system I do not like is Fenders screw adjuster. On that one, the heal of the neck is sitting on a bolt. Not good IMO. But a .020 shim between the neck and body? No problem.

There you have it, that's like God saying homosexuality is ok

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

Not me. IMO a band-aid is not a fix. It's duct tape for a manufacturing flaw. Were the guitar (any guitar; no I'm not referring specifically to EB's ) built correctly (ie: the angle in the neck pocket right) a shim would not be necessary.

I prefer permanant solution's rather than band-aid's.

Aside from that, it's an easy route with a good jig.

Jeffrey, I can't say anything more than "I disagree with the comment in bold" without sounding like an ASS hole (that's Axis SuperSport hole for all of you ).

Oh, and "Built correctly" - according to whose standards?


I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I disagree.

Shims are merely another way of tweaking/adjusting/setting up a guitar to one's personal preference. There is no right-wrong way for everyone, just what is right for yourself. Nothin wrong with removing shims and re-routing the neck pocket if that's the right way for you - but for the average consumer who bangs the guitar around and needs to have it adjusted, shims are the answer.

 

[Roubster]

OKay, I recieved my Silo back, and it sounds awesome. The guys really did a good job with it, and I think they might have done some fret work on it because there was a hump around the 12th fret. Now the neck is straight and with comfortable action and only slight buzz on the low E string. I guess some buzzing is just unavoidable, and even Mr. Vai said that, so I will stop worrying about that and just play the hell out of this thing as I have been even with buzzing before. The only thing that I tweaked was the PUPs height, because they put the neck too low and bridge too high, no biggie. Now all I gotta do is get the Earlwine book and strat studying that for my future set ups.

 

[jeffrey]

Jeffrey, I can't say anything more than "I disagree with the comment in bold" without sounding like an ASS hole (that's Axis SuperSport hole for all of you ).

Oh, and "Built correctly" - according to whose standards?


I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I disagree.

Shims are merely another way of tweaking/adjusting/setting up a guitar to one's personal preference. There is no right-wrong way for everyone, just what is right for yourself. Nothin wrong with removing shims and re-routing the neck pocket if that's the right way for you - but for the average consumer who bangs the guitar around and needs to have it adjusted, shims are the answer.

Hahah, no worries Pete.

I hear ya, I didn't mean to come off aggressive or anything if I did.

I just think it can be done and built right without ever having to use shims (and it can).

I just prefer stuff done that way. That's all.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I gotta go with Sterling on this. Do not fear the shim. The only system I do not like is Fenders screw adjuster. On that one, the heal of the neck is sitting on a bolt. Not good IMO. But a .020 shim between the neck and body? No problem.

totally agree on that crappy fender system!!

I also agree thats it's not a problem to shim - my tele has a mahogony shim and I love the way it sounds. But "caveat emptor" - if you do shim you may notice a change in tone probably due to any gap in the neck pocket more than anything else.
Spud

 

[Spudmurphy]

I've read the Erlwine articles as well, and his take on it. I remain unconviced. Depending on the shim of course. Some are done well, and others aren't. For the most part though the change in tone by the addition of thin bit of plastic or whatever is miniscule if any. Even if you did a scientific measurement of frequency, I doubt you'd see much difference.

Then again, I've heard some guitar players can differentiate the difference in battery voltage, or even brands by ear, so who knows. Maybe some guys can hear such differences. I don't think I can. Especially when I crank it up.

Well my hearing is shot. We spent the best part of a day messing about shimming, unshimming using brass/wood and finally dressing the neck socket so that no shim was needed. We are talking about a cheap body, an Allparts neck and some upmarket Fender pickups. (shoot when you get older your memory gets terrible too!)
My mate wants to get into repair work and was using the day as a kind of experiment. He had me playing thro the same amp/set up/pick up selection and there was a difference. I can only go by this experience/experiment.

each to their own I guess?

 

[nobozos]

Okay guys, let's get real for just a minute. While I'm sure that there are some people out there that are able to tell how many hours a set of strings has been played on by the tone of the guitar, most can't. I'm not saying that there is absolutely no difference between the tone of a shimmed and un-shimmed neck, but I am saying that even if you, with a highly trained ear can hear it, chances are that anyone you play for will not notice.

Sometime around last year, I came to the realization that the only person that was scrutinizing my tone was me. I was playing through my Mesa, when I lost a pre-amp tube. No problem, I switched to my Tech 21 Trademark 10, and ran direct out to the board so I could finish out the night. I had more compliments on my sound AFTER I switched amps that night. It was then that I realized that tone-wise, most people that listen to a band don't know their ASS (Axis Super Sport) from a hole in the ground. If I spend a bunch of money on the right pedals, the right guitar, the right amp so that my tone is perfect, I don't want to be the only one that notices. Now, I play through a Line 6 Flextone Plus, and although I notice the difference, I would say that it comes close enough to tube amp tone that nobody listening will notice when you mix it in with the rest of the band.

Point being, your amp affects your tone much more than a sliver of wood/metal/plastic in your neck pocket. We all put so much effort into finding the "perfect tone", and when we do, we like to pretend that somebody other than us gives a crap.

 

[SteveB]

nobozos,

Also, don't forget that when playing live through a PA system, it doesn't matter WHAT gear you have, the soundman can make or break you..

crappy EQ'ing.. cheap microphone.. pass/cut filters accidentally turned on.. poor effect choices at the board.. bad speaker cabinets for mains.. bad crossover configuration..

..there are so many variables beyond your control, I just don't see the point in being one of those 'holy grail' tone seekers. Chances are good that what's coming out the mains isn't anywhere near what's coming out of your amp.

Conversely, I've played gigs with pretty crappy gear and had it sound great with some good EQ and effects at the board.

So save your money boys, and just concentrate on your playing.

 

[hbucker]

I don't like the Fender system either. But the worst part about it is people who don't know how to adjust it. They just start cranking away on the adjustment screw without removing the neck screws and completely strip out the neck screw holes in the body.

Rule of thumb: any time you're "adjusting" something on your guitar and you hear a grinding, crunching noise... you're probably doing something wrong.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Okay guys, let's get real for just a minute. While I'm sure that there are some people out there that are able to tell how many hours a set of strings has been played on by the tone of the guitar, most can't. I'm not saying that there is absolutely no difference between the tone of a shimmed and un-shimmed neck, but I am saying that even if you, with a highly trained ear can hear it, chances are that anyone you play for will not notice.

Point taken. I would like to add that in our experiment, whether the neck was shimmed with wood/brass or unshimmed (seated in a tight socket) no set up we tried sucked- it's just that there was a difference thats all.

IMHO shim all ya want - if it floats your boat, then that's all that matters

 

[Spudmurphy]

My '36 Paramount Archtop is a case to itself!

Instead of a strapbutton, it has a hex bar running from the neck, through the Archtop body.
There are some small screws attached to the body where the neck meets the body.
You slacken these off, rotate the hex bar and the neck tillts so that you can lower/raise the action.
The owner of the guitar used to raise the action and use it just like a "lap steel"- a very unusual guitar.

I've tried getting more info on it but from this side of the pond have had litle luck.
Any guitar historians out there in the USA able to help me out on a bit of history here?
- I haven't seen another one like it in the UK!

 

[bearmusic]

Shimming a neck or Not!!

Hi All
Just thought I'd join this debate!
I'm the guy with Spudmurphy who shimmed the strat I was building.


Why?

well
I had a real nice neck imported from the USA ( import duty hurts!)
I also was checking out some cheap kits, so I took the neck and fitted the cheap body.

Thing was the pocket was angled wrong for the neck ( Mighty Mite 'fender')
The string at the 15th fret were touching the neck.

So Spud had some brass shimming stuff which I used.

I only put the brass at the pocket top to angle the neck down towards the body.

As this was going on I had deleivered my Lindy Fralin Blueskaster pickups.
These things are just heaven for a strat player, very resposive, so I was doing a lot of playing and listening at this time.

Having the Fralins on I thought I'd try remove the shim and rout the neck as it should be.

Having done this and set the action ( I use a flat neck and standard fender action, not to low)
I fired up the beast and noticed a change in tone on the Fralins
they seemed to sound a touch darker(!) more like an old hendrix/Kossoff sound.

Suited me well, thing is I havn't painted the body ( its sealed)
and like the way it sounds and plays ( Ah hem! knocks spot of my '79 strat sound wise!!)

I now have a swamp ash body and new neck for the next project, guess I better get on with it!

 

[Spudmurphy]

Hiya Bear
Welcome to the forum - it's a great place to be, and a great way to post number "250".