what kind of truss rod does EBMM use?

[withmyshadow]

there's two kinds as far as I know:

As with many devices, there is ongoing refinement and new methods being researched. However, for the conservative minded or traditional player, there are two primary truss rod designs in common usage. Both of these designs are available from Warmoth.

The first and oldest design we call "vintage". This consists of a single rod inset into a concave trench below the fingerboard. It is anchored to the neck at both ends. This is the rod used by both Fender and Gibson.

The second design is a double rod, either made of two pieces welded together or a folded single piece. This rod is laid in a straight trench below the fingerboard and it is not anchored to the neck. This design has been used by Rickenbacker for many years.

from what I know, the first kind doesn't necessarily have a skank stripe.
the second kind, popularized by jackson, ibanez is more stable but sounds less musical.
what kind does EBMM use?

 

[Spudmurphy]

One truss or two ?

there's two kinds as far as I know:

from what I know, the first kind doesn't necessarily have a skank stripe.
the second kind, popularized by jackson, ibanez is more stable but sounds less musical.
what kind does EBMM use?

The first kind normally have a skunk stripe depending on whether the neck is a one piece or has a laminate of eBONY / ROSEWOOD/ MAPLE Over the top - in which case the channel is routed and the rod inserted before the fretboard is glued on.
If the neck is a one piece then a channel is routed in the back and filled in later - hence the skunk stripe.

However my AL is a one piece maple neck which has no skunk stripe - I can only imagine that EB have one hell of a machine to drill the slot into the one piece neck.
Whether there is one or two truss rods in the EB AL, I don't know and hope that someone who does posts a reply to this.
Spud

 

[Dodgeball]

The first kind normally have a skunk stripe depending on whether the neck is a one piece or has a laminate of eBONY / ROSEWOOD/ MAPLE Over the top - in which case the channel is routed and the rod inserted before the fretboard is glued on.
If the neck is a one piece then a channel is routed in the back and filled in later - hence the skunk stripe.

However my AL is a one piece maple neck which has no skunk stripe - I can only imagine that EB have one hell of a machine to drill the slot into the one piece neck.
Whether there is one or two truss rods in the EB AL, I don't know and hope that someone who does posts a reply to this.
Spud

Spud,

I think it says in the FAQ that the axis necks (and so I would assume all EBMM necks but you know what they say about assumptions being the mother of all f***-ups) are made by taking the fretboard of the neck, inserting the truss rod, then glueing the fretboard back on over the top.

I have no idea what kind of truss rod is actually used.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Spud,

I think it says in the FAQ that the axis necks (and so I would assume all EBMM necks but you know what they say about assumptions being the mother of all f***-ups) are made by taking the fretboard of the neck, inserting the truss rod, then glueing the fretboard back on over the top.

I have no idea what kind of truss rod is actually used.

But my neck appears to be one piece - there is no fretboard laminate?

Lets see what transpires - maybe jongitarz will let us know?

 

[jazzbo jim]

it's not a one piece neck-it's just an exceptionally good match.
Look CAREFULLY up and down the entire length of the neck on both sides of the fingerboard. You'll find it. Look for SLIGHT grain mismatch. Fingerboard appears to be about 3/8 in thick.
As far as the truss rod is concerned, I'm not sure. Whatever it is it's deadly precise. A SMALL adjustment translates into a significant neck adjustment.
I have a Warmoth with a Double rod type truus and it's DEADLY stable. Rarely requires adjustment (this has a lot to do with the stability of the wood-THICK rosewood board and maple neck)

 

[Big Poppa]

Our Truss rod is a truss rod not rods

On the maple models of all of our instrumentsthe fretboard is cut from the exact same piece and reglued exactly in the same plance as mother nature planned. SPud you can tell by looking at just past the nut there will be a hiar line seam that is more evident at the top cross grain.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Our Truss rod is a truss rod not rods

On the maple models of all of our instrumentsthe fretboard is cut from the exact same piece and reglued exactly in the same plance as mother nature planned. SPud you can tell by looking at just past the nut there will be a hiar line seam that is more evident at the top cross grain.

Well bug*er me!!
(No not really its a Brit colloquialism!!!)

Thanks for that!

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

When I got my first EBMM, I was convinced in was a one piece. My Dad and I were convinced! Its so well done you have to almost look at it with a microscope to notice the join. Amazing craftmanship.

 

[withmyshadow]

it's not a one piece neck-it's just an exceptionally good match.
Look CAREFULLY up and down the entire length of the neck on both sides of the fingerboard. You'll find it. Look for SLIGHT grain mismatch. Fingerboard appears to be about 3/8 in thick.
As far as the truss rod is concerned, I'm not sure. Whatever it is it's deadly precise. A SMALL adjustment translates into a significant neck adjustment.
I have a Warmoth with a Double rod type truus and it's DEADLY stable. Rarely requires adjustment (this has a lot to do with the stability of the wood-THICK rosewood board and maple neck)

I'm glad this thread finally caught some attention!
well, as far as the warmoth double rods go, they are DEADLY stable more due to the rods. you see the main difference is, do you press the wood with a piece of metal (vintage design) or you press metal with another piece of metal (modern design). it could be two rods (warmoth), a rod and an aluminum slot (jackson u-beam) or a rod and a thinner beam (ibanez, I think).
I don't mean to be a b*tch about this trivial detail, but I have 5 bolt-on guitars and two of them are Benders with vintage necks. their acoustic sound and vibration are far better than others. they have a looser feel. Now some may say in hi-gain situations that loose feel becomes muddiness but the clean tone is night and day different.
most american highend brands use some form of the vintage design for this precise reason, Bender, gibby, anderson, suhr and G&L. Now leo invented a new technique call bi-cut at G&L. it slits the neck in two halves and put in the rod so there's no skank stripe. mechanically it's similar. My guess is EBMM uses a form of the vintage design, too. but they lay the rod from the front under the board and seal it with the board. my reasoning is, they claim that the advantage of the wheel is easy adjustment without string or part removal. Well, if they use the modern design and do it well, they DON'T need to adjust it often. Like my ibby RG prestige and warmoth. it's a good thing that your neck moves with weather, in a sense. that's when you know you are hearing the tone of the wood, which is playing a guitar is all about, right?

 

[Spudmurphy]

When I got my first EBMM, I was convinced in was a one piece. My Dad and I were convinced! Its so well done you have to almost look at it with a microscope to notice the join. Amazing craftmanship.

+1 !!!

 

[Big Poppa]

I'm glad this thread finally caught some attention!
well, as far as the warmoth double rods go, they are DEADLY stable more due to the rods. you see the main difference is, do you press the wood with a piece of metal (vintage design) or you press metal with another piece of metal (modern design). it could be two rods (warmoth), a rod and an aluminum slot (jackson u-beam) or a rod and a thinner beam (ibanez, I think).
I don't mean to be a b*tch about this trivial detail, but I have 5 bolt-on guitars and two of them are Benders with vintage necks. their acoustic sound and vibration are far better than others. they have a looser feel. Now some may say in hi-gain situations that loose feel becomes muddiness but the clean tone is night and day different.
most american highend brands use some form of the vintage design for this precise reason, Bender, gibby, anderson, suhr and G&L. Now leo invented a new technique call bi-cut at G&L. it slits the neck in two halves and put in the rod so there's no skank stripe. mechanically it's similar. My guess is EBMM uses a form of the vintage design, too. but they lay the rod from the front under the board and seal it with the board. my reasoning is, they claim that the advantage of the wheel is easy adjustment without string or part removal. Well, if they use the modern design and do it well, they DON'T need to adjust it often. Like my ibby RG prestige and warmoth. it's a good thing that your neck moves with weather, in a sense. that's when you know you are hearing the tone of the wood, which is playing a guitar is all about, right?

MODERN DESIGN???????? Lets just say that we make about 16,000 instruments per year and have ZERO problems with our rod. Everyone gets to make their instruments as they see fit. If we thought a cheesy aluminum channel was better we would consider it. We have an innovative system that works...we also dont make our living copying other designs like some other PARTS makers that you mention. Please let me know your design background.

 

[withmyshadow]

MODERN DESIGN???????? Lets just say that we make about 16,000 instruments per year and have ZERO problems with our rod. Everyone gets to make their instruments as they see fit. If we thought a cheesy aluminum channel was better we would consider it. We have an innovative system that works...we also dont make our living copying other designs like some other PARTS makers that you mention. Please let me know your design background.

well, obviously I'm not a pro and I have no design background. But I do have a ph. D. in engineering physics with training in electronics and mechanical design. I am not claiming I know as much as the pro's but as far as principals go, this's about the stress and strain of solids.
having said that, I don't think you read my post carefully. By "modern design" I meant newer design. I didn't imply it was better. I didn't suggest EBMM copied any design, either. where did you read that?
all I was saying was, no matter how you do it, you have to apply press from one thing to another. if both pieces are made of the same material(say, metal) they "move" with weather in the same way so the actual movement of the neck would be less. that's good mechanically but those necks have a bright and stiff sound. good for heavy metal, only.
if you apply pressure from metal to wood, then the mechanical properties of the wood have a much bigger role, which is good. and my guess is EBMM uses the latter approach since they have a natural clean tone.

 

[beej]

as the warmoth double rods go, they are DEADLY stable more due to the rods ... Well, if they use the modern design and do it well, they DON'T need to adjust it often.

I have the odd Warmoth neck lying around, and they're not bad. But I don't think they're comparable to any of my EBMM necks (wood, finish, frets, etc.) I'm guessing your Ibby and Warmoth have finished necks, right? They're inherently less succeptible to humidity changes. I had a Warmoth neck with just the oil finish- didn't last too long I'm afraid. And they even point this out on their site:

We understand the attraction of raw or lightly oiled necks. They feel fast and are not sticky. Unfortunately, they are much more susceptible to moisture related warping and twisting. Our experience is that hard finished necks seldom warp. Less than 1 out of 200 (0.5%) are returned for warpage. Raw or oiled necks don't fare as well. About 10% are rendered useless from the torture. The more acidic your perspiration, the higher the odds are against you. If you must play a raw neck, that's cool; it's ok. A neck is just a tool. Just be aware of the risk. If yours does the pretzel act, we don't want to hear about it.

I'll take the EBMM oiled necks any day of the week (and they're warranteed). They require the odd tweak (not unlike a a good sports car vs a Honda), but they're pretty solid (NB: my old finished Morse neck never needed a tweak).

I've seen the EBMM rods on the factory tour. EBMM's system is pretty slick- well engineered and it works like a charm. But don't take my word for it (I only have a Masters in Engineering Physics ) - ask Steve Morse, John Petrucci, Luke, or any of the other guys that play EBMM exclusively

 

[Colin]

Well said Beej.

Colin

 

[koogie2k]

EBMM's truss rods are simply fantastic and ingenious in the way you can access them. Simplicity is what works here. I don't need a degree to work on it...

I posted photos of the factory tour at the Open House that shows the necks together through the various stages of being made. One photo shows the rough cut wood, then the piece cut to laminate back, the truss rod channel routed, then the rod inserted with the laminate piece back......

Yes, it is very deceiving (in a good way) in that the neck looks like one piece and the truss rod was magically put there.....gotta love that kind of craftsmanship. The Peeps that work at the factory certainly take tremendous pride in their work....again, I thank you.

 

[Colin]

EBMM's truss rods are simply fantastic and ingenious in the way you can access them. Simplicity is what works here. I don't need a degree to work on it...

I posted photos of the factory tour at the Open House that shows the necks together through the various stages of being made. One photo shows the rough cut wood, then the piece cut to laminate back, the truss rod channel routed, then the rod inserted with the laminate piece back......

Yes, it is very deceiving (in a good way) in that the neck looks like one piece and the truss rod was magically put there.....gotta love that kind of craftsmanship. The Peeps that work at the factory certainly take tremendous pride in their work....again, I thank you.

I think the EB truss rod is one of the cleverest ideas in a long time. Even a big company with the initials Peavey used it. Comes in handy for quick onstage adjustments, especially under hot lights.

Colin

 

[tommyindelaware]

they imatated it.......
but they didn't get it right.....
nowhere near as smooth or as uniform operation as ebmm's......

I think the EB truss rod is one of the cleverest ideas in a long time. Even a big company with the initials Peavey used it. Comes in handy for quick onstage adjustments, especially under hot lights.

Colin

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

they imatated it.......
but they didn't get it right.....
nowhere near as smooth or as uniform operation as ebmm's......

I am not into Peavey bashing, but the rod on my old Wolfgang didnt seem to do much at all. Just an observation.

 

[Colin]

they imatated it.......
but they didn't get it right.....
nowhere near as smooth or as uniform operation as ebmm's......

Now you know why I say yippe in my signature I guess imitation is a form of flattery.

Colin