What to look for in a Bass Instructor

[Moose308]

So I finally made the plunge. I intend to humilate myself on a weekly basis by going to music lessons. I have signed up at the local music store for bass lessons. I know I need them.

To give you some background, I have very limited musical background. My current knowledge on bass is entirely self-taught. Basically I just pickup basslines from my MP3 collection by ear, and sometimes tab. I have a songlist of perhaps 20-30 songs I play along to fairly well, some better than others. Most of this consists of standard rock type songs, like U2, The Police, No Doubt, 54-40, The Tragically Hip. Nothing too terribly complex.

The big question is, now that I have an instructor, what should I be looking for? What sort of material should I expect him to cover, or push me towards? Is there lessons or material that he ought to run me though?

Just sort of curious, so I can make sure I am getting my money's worth.

Thanks.

 

[Dr Stankface]

All bass teachers will have their own methods and such but one thing I would really encourage is learning how to read music.

 

[Colin]

1. make sure he has a bass
2. avoid if he teaches from the back of a combi van
3. Warwick t-shirts usually are a no-no as well

 

[RiddimKing]

Your teacher should evaluate your playing first off in terms of your ability to keep time, and secondarily, your tone. If your sense of time is off, then that should be corrected through exercises and practice. After that, he should start grounding you in theory as applied to bass: you should learn to arpeggiate chords; you should learn the blues progression, and what scale tones apply to each chord. You should learn the modes. After that, a lot depends on what you want to do with bass. If you want primarily to play pop/rock/blues rock (and have no desire to be a session guy), I think that learning shapes and how they connect is more important than learning to read. Also, your teacher should work with you on getting good tone: note length and articulation; clean fretting and consistant right hand technique; muting and dead notes. Anyways, kind of a ramble, but should get you started. Good luck! You'll make very fast progress with a good teacher.

 

[PocketGroove82]

Jeff Berlin's MarkBass add a few pages in to the new Bass Player (the one with Pino on the front) has some interesting tips that you might want to check out.

On his list of gimmicks and falsehoods he states:
1. Tabs
2. Rock LEssons
4. Academic slap exercises
5 two hand tapping exercises
9. learning the bass neck via "shapes"
10. studying with any teach asks you "what do you want to work on today?"

he also says
6. find a teach who teaches musical content, not rock, slap, tap, two-handed exercises, etc.
9. learn academic jazz even if you don't want to play it.

I gotta give him credit for saying all that stuff in an Advertisement for MarkBass. lol.

 

[RiddimKing]

On his list of gimmicks and falsehoods he states:

9. learning the bass neck via "shapes"

Well, okay, I haven't read the Jeff Berlin thing, but intervals are also "shapes." In other words, I don't think most people get very far trying to memorize the note names and places for all keys. In other words, if I'm going to be using, say, a Mixolydian mode over an A blues, I'm not thinking of the note names as I'm playing and where they are on the fretboard as I modulate the scale from the I to the IV to the V chord. I think: 24 124 124 etc with the root on the (bottom) 2 in each case. In other words, a shape...and ultimately, a continuous set of connecting shapes.

 

[koogie2k]

RiddimKing's answer is a great one. I have a bass instructor who is a Berklee grad who is a MONSTER player. He understands I am a guitar player...love to use the pick....and I have good timing. He has given me exercises using my fingers as well as the pick. He has me reading music....we started with the VERY basics as I never read music before....he goes over theory as it applies to each lesson, but makes sure I am good with the previous week's lesson. He quizzes me...literally....by asking questions and having me show him how it applies. My first sight reading song....Mary Had A Little Lamb! But, we have since grown from there...LOL....
He does not show me how good he is.....he only shows me what or how to apply the lesson or technique. That is what I love about him....he knows he can play...he just wants me to become better so he doesn't wank to show me a cool Wooten tune....his teaching is fairly strict as he told me..."I want you to get your money's worth as you want to learn." Great guy.....

 

[ras1983]

there have ben some great posts in this thread.

firstly, about jeff berlin's comments on 'shapes'; i don't agree with him at all. IMHO, for a bass tuned in 4ths(which the overwhelming majority are!) then learning shapes and how they connect will speed up your knowledge of the fret board. a dorian mode is the same shape all over the neck, so are all the other modes.

now, i happen to have one of teh best teachers in the state. sure, there are many monster bass players, but not all of them can teach. Tass Petridis, is a monster player(with his own album) and more importantly is a monster TEACHER. he can communicate his points accross easily, he makes sure his students understand what he is teaching. to the original poster, find a teacher who does several things:

teaches you theory - WHY is a major chord a major chord. WHY is a mode a mode. WHY is a pentatonic a pentatonic. WHAT is a relative major/minor. WHAT is an inversion. etc

analysis your strengths/weaknesses - this is very important in a teacher. a teacher who is good at finding your weaknesses as well as your strengths will help you improve your playing in the fastest possible time.

teaches you technical excersises - all the great players, from stanley to jaco, have used technical exercises that specifically target a given function of the left or right hand to imrpove their speed and accuracy. my teacher has enough exercises to keep anyone going for months on end!

teaches you to apply the theory - its no use knowing all the scales and exercises in the world if you can't make music from them. my teacher likes to use the Aebersold play-along series to help his students apply the theory that he teaches. for example, it could be picking up a II-V-I turnaround, or it could be building walking basslines, or it could be soloing in defferent keys and making the transitions in between.

does NOT teach you a song - one big mistake people make is they think a teacher should be teaching songs. NO. a teacher should be teaching you the theory and exercises, and then you should be able to take what you have learned and play almost any song you want to. koogie2k, that is a mighty fine point to make at the end of your post.

the point is a good teacher will show you how to apply the theory and exercises that they teach you.

good luck with your search!

 

[Big Poppa]

I look for the one with the biggest knockers

 

[PocketGroove82]

I look for the one with the biggest knockers

LMFAO!


As for Jeff Berlin's little tips...he also says don't practice with metronomes. And says that music schools are a gimmick, even though he runs one in florida!

So, keep in mind he's the kind of guy who likes to make waves and piss people off with his statements that challenge their preconceived notions. It's one of the things I like about him.

I think what he is getting at by saying don't learn the bass neck via shapes, is to actually learn the notes that you are playing and the sounds that the intervals have.
Not just "finger here and there = Maj3rd".
Granted, we all learned the instrument through shapes and use them and relate basic playing/harmony with shapes and patterns. That's why it intrigues me that such a bass monster considers them to be a bane, and an obstacle to work through.

When he says anything that rubs me the wrong way, I really sit back and ask myself why would this bass badass come out and say something that totally shatters my preconceived notions? And why does that piss me off?

 

[dlb1001]

So I finally made the plunge. I intend to humilate myself on a weekly basis by going to music lessons. I have signed up at the local music store for bass lessons. I know I need them.

To give you some background, I have very limited musical background. My current knowledge on bass is entirely self-taught. Basically I just pickup basslines from my MP3 collection by ear, and sometimes tab. I have a songlist of perhaps 20-30 songs I play along to fairly well, some better than others. Most of this consists of standard rock type songs, like U2, The Police, No Doubt, 54-40, The Tragically Hip. Nothing too terribly complex.

The big question is, now that I have an instructor, what should I be looking for? What sort of material should I expect him to cover, or push me towards? Is there lessons or material that he ought to run me though?

Just sort of curious, so I can make sure I am getting my money's worth.

Thanks.

The potential teacher should interview and find out what your goals are. Then, they should spent some time and see where you are at, as far as technique, musical ability and timing.
I'm taking lessons that are blues based, through the School of Blues in San Jose. At first, I thought blues was pretty simple, just mainly I IV V progression. But, I found out very quickly that my timing was off so he spent a few sessions to work on that item.
He does teaches songs but uses them as examples of what turnaround is and what a quick change is, etc.
Also, he made me do listening exercises where I had to listen songs, from the radio, and try to find the quarter note beat.
Finally, the School of Blues has student concerts where they will ask you to form a group with some of the other students and play live. Then, the teachers will critique everyone's performance.

 

[Kirby]

I believe the best instructor is one who analyzes your weak areas and strives to correct these issues. I have had many instructors and of the ones at Berklee, the one I enjoyed most was Jim Stinnett. He was instantly aware of my weak areas and gave me many exercises to use to strengthen them.

He was a very intense teacher as well. My hands would be cramped after many lessons with him. The intensity of a lesson pushes you to practice harder to prepare in my opinion.

I also agreee with the earlier point of not learning from someone who asks you what you want to learn that day.

I highly encourage a metronome as well. I cannot believe Jeff Berlin said to not use one of these. The one clinic I saw him at, he constantly mentioned finding your own sense of rythym. How can you do this if you have no concept of time?

Finally find a teacher who connects well with you on a personal level as well that way you do not get upset when receiving constructive criticism.

 

[maddog]

about losing that metronome, chuch rainey said the same thing at SOB. But I think what he was getting at is that you have to feel the music and not mechanize the music. One of the hard things I've seen on the classical side. Plenty of students can play note for note what's on the page but does their playing emotionally grab me, no.

 

[Kirby]

I could not agree more maddog. I think you nailed it on the head. I think the metronome is like training wheels, you need to remove them after you have developed your own sense of time & rythym. However, I still use mine to practice speed drills and with transposition exercises in all keys. Sort of as a watchdog for me. I have never been able to get a metronome to swing though.

 

[lorino]

Berlin

I've been to The Player's School - I think the whole metronome thing gets blown out of proportion. Its essentially what Maddog said via Chuck Rainey.

You can't 'learn' while using a metronome - playing something in time, especially to a metronome, causes you to focus on the metronome. Jeff wants you to learn and make mistakes, not pay attention to a metronome.

Secondly, playing music is not metronomic - its about feel and the timing of the band / group, etc. Again, essentially what Chuck Rainey said.

JIM

 

[bonzo]

about losing that metronome, chuch rainey said the same thing at SOB. But I think what he was getting at is that you have to feel the music and not mechanize the music. One of the hard things I've seen on the classical side. Plenty of students can play note for note what's on the page but does their playing emotionally grab me, no.

Prolly saying the same thing here but my last and best teacher told me to play through the click not to it. As stated you get caught up in listening to the click and not laying down a groove with feel. Sure get the notes right but it sounds empty without the "Feel"

 

[PocketGroove82]

I tossed all my metronomes and bought a drum machine. Boss Dr-880, and oh man...I NEVER EVER wanna play with a metronome again.
If ya can't get a drummer, a good drum machine is the next best thing.

Kirby, I've also studied with Jim and I def. think he is of the Jeff Berlin school of bass instruction! He's a no-nonsense guy who will chew your ass if you didn't prepare, and he always made me want to practice just to get a few kind words out of him. Somehow he mastered the cool asshole thing, and even 4 years later I still keep in touch with him.

Some teachers are just happy they are getting paid, and they don't care if you work hard and improve.
Other guys will shatter your ego into a million pieces on a weekly basis. and it works.
Still, others just have big knockers.

...and it really works!

 

[Colin]

just because someone is a good player, it doesn't mean he's a good teacher...

 

[Kirby]

Some teachers are just happy they are getting paid, and they don't care if you work hard and improve.
Other guys will shatter your ego into a million pieces on a weekly basis. and it works.
Still, others just have big knockers.

...and it really works![/QUOTE]


What an awesome quote! I could not agree more.

 

[Moose308]

I look for the one with the biggest knockers

Good Advice. Of course, the one with the biggest knockers is a guy. I get confused sometimes, so hopefully this doesn't prove to be a problem.