What's the appeal of "Pre EB" Music Man Instruments?

[Manfloozy]

Simple question with I'm sure a complicated answer.....

But why do people seek out or prefer pre Ernie Ball Music Man instruments? To me, this is counter intuitive because I associate Ernie Ball's ownership of the brand with quality, and SLO goodness.

I know Leo had a hand in them at the time, but I think EB took what Leo sold them and improved upon it, right? Three bolt neck plate.... ok that's cool, but functionally inferior to the 4, 5 or 6 bolt attachments... right? Are there other technical differences that may contribute to this?

So other than for collectors due to the "rarity" and "age" of the intruments why in Sam Hill would this be a selling point?

I'm not asking to stir anything up, or because I think these people are wrong... I'm just ignorant on the subject and would like a bit of good ol' fashioned knucklehead edumacation!

 

[Musicman Nut]

Simple question with I'm sure a complicated answer.....

But why do people seek out or prefer pre Ernie Ball Music Man instruments? To me, this is counter intuitive because I associate Ernie Ball's ownership of the brand with quality, and SLO goodness.

I know Leo had a hand in them at the time, but I think EB took what Leo sold them and improved upon it, right? Three bolt neck plate.... ok that's cool, but functionally inferior to the 4, 5 or 6 bolt attachments... right? Are there other technical differences that may contribute to this?

So other than for collectors due to the "rarity" and "age" of the intruments why in Sam Hill would this be a selling point?

I'm not asking to stir anything up, or because I think these people are wrong... I'm just ignorant on the subject and would like a bit of good ol' fashioned knucklehead edumacation!

Well I think some People just love to tinker, an Ernie Ball Basic setup is about 20 minutes and a Pre Ernie Ball about 4 Days give or take a few,

Pre Ernie Balls weigh about 11 pounds, Most Ernie Balls 9.5 or lighter.

 

[Aussie Mark]

The quality of EB basses is superb and ultra consistent. Some of the early pre-EB necks have a very different radius to the EB necks - the very thin pre-EB necks are beautiful to play (if the neck is not warped) and feel like L series P-bass necks.

Other people love the 2 band pre-EB preamp, but that's a moot point really, considering that you can get the 2 band pre in current models too.

 

[Musicman Nut]

Mark Is right, Some of the Old Pre Necks we're incredible if you got a STRAIGHT ONE.

 

[MrMusashi]

i got a really early one, but i have to say i prefer the new ones..

6 bolt neck, oil and wax, easy adjust trussrod, electronics that havent seen the best of 30 years.. i pray it works every time i touch the bass

MrM

 

[maddog]

the perception of mojo.

 

[Caca de Kick]

Well I think some People just love to tinker, an Ernie Ball Basic setup is about 20 minutes and a Pre Ernie Ball about 4 Days give or take a few,

Pre Ernie Balls weigh about 11 pounds, Most Ernie Balls 9.5 or lighter.

You could not be more wrong sir. Every preEB passed through my hands setup very fast and never moved after the setup.

Most I've run across were 10 lbs and under. While I have run across a handful of 11 lb'ers, it's the same percentage as finding EB's that weigh that much.

For me it's the slim necks and rounded edges.

 

[Infidelity]

You could not be more wrong sir. Every preEB passed through my hands setup very fast and never moved after the setup.

Most I've run across were 10 lbs and under. While I have run across a handful of 11 lb'ers, it's the same percentage as finding EB's that weigh that much.

For me it's the slim necks and rounded edges.

same here! I really love my preEB when I had it..

 

[Musicman Nut]

You could not be more wrong sir. Every preEB passed through my hands setup very fast and never moved after the setup.

Most I've run across were 10 lbs and under. While I have run across a handful of 11 lb'ers, it's the same percentage as finding EB's that weigh that much.

For me it's the slim necks and rounded edges.

Lucky you, I've had over 50 of the Pre Ernie Balls and out of all of them 2 we're great the others sucked, Now I have 295 Ernie Ball and 295 Play and sound Great.

 

[RobertB]

I think the allure is entirely attributable to the "vintage" concept, and the response that evokes in some individuals, period. It's not about practical/tangible things like improved quality and features, consistency, etc... It's totally a perception thing -an artifact of the human psyche ... the more direct connection with Leo some perceive those instruments to have, etc... Those with a more practical/utilitarian mindset know the right play. I personally wouldn't spend my time or money on the pre-EB stuff, not with today's offerings. It's just turning a blind eye to the things that really matter, IMHO.

 

[phatduckk]

some people may actually like em better. its their opinion - which is fine.

but as the guys said - the new MMs are really good and most (all) of us think they're actually way better.

also, i bet some people just like "old" things. given the popularity of other vintage instruments i'm sure a bunch of folks just assume that all manufacturers' older models are more desirable than their newer counterparts

 

[DrGonzo5150]

the perception of mojo.

Well put Sir.

 

[Bart B]

I have a Pre-Eb and an EB Stingray. None is better than the other, they're just different sounding and different feeling. (IMO)
and: the pre EB had alot of mojo (read: being used ,lots of scratches). I'm always very careful with instruments and I don't want them to have a scratch. This could prevent me of having the maximum of fun on a show, so a bass with scratches already on it, was an advantage for me.

Second, it sounded great, has a worn in feeling. I wouldn't buy a relic, but this is real 'relic'. You're correct to say that there's some psychology going on in wanting such an old, worn out instrument.

Thirdly, I wanted to know what Pre-Eb was about. If the question is: are they better than the current EB's, the answer is -no. But they're different, so that made me curious.

Last: (this is not a rant): even after a refret, new nut and full check up, it was still 1000 USD cheaper than a classic. (in europe)

Would I buy another Pre-Eb? probably not, I know what is about now, I like it, but like DJ said, a new EB is more 'user friendly' and you don't have to worry that the preamp will die or that you will find any hidden problems etc.

 

[Elad_E]

I second everything Bart B said.

my non-Classic Stingray is a completely different bass to my pre-EB.
the pre-EB Ray is a typical late 70s American made instrument - built like a tank, weighs like one and has the fit and finish to complete the AFV analogy.
psychologically it does seem to have that old-mojo soul but practically - the neck is crazy comfortable and the sound is beastly - had the most punch of any bass I've played or heard, which occasionally can be too much.

my EBMM non classic 2EQ Ray has the best fit and finish of any bass I've seen (along with my fretless EBMM SR4), weighs much more reasonably than the pre-EB, has a hugh neck profile and sounds very tame in comparison to the pre-EB.
as said - setups are a breeze though the pre-EB is stable as a rock so not much need for adjustments.

don't know if it's the oiled neck vs. finished, different caps used in the 2 band EQ, different pickup winding, string thru body vs. thru-bridge...bottom line they are both Stingrays and they are both completely different animals.
that being said I'll be getting a Classic this year, the level of workmanship is so high that it really is hard going back and forth between my other basses (including the pre-EB) and my EBMMs.

 

[cellkirk74]

Lucky you, I've had over 50 of the Pre Ernie Balls and out of all of them 2 we're great the others sucked, Now I have 295 Ernie Ball and 295 Play and sound Great.

May I use this from time to time? That pretty much sums it up.

One of the strangest arguments I ever heard was that the sound of the pre EB's (think Bernard Edwards) was heavily influenced by the micro tilt neck joint. Nonsense and voodoo...

 

[Chuck B]

One of the strangest arguments I ever heard was that the sound of the pre EB's (think Bernard Edwards) was heavily influenced by the micro tilt neck joint. Nonsense and voodoo...

That was recently to be read in the "Bass Professor" magazine. The folks there are all very good bass players and know what they say.

 

[oli@bass]

I think there's a bit of a misconception about the features of the early Music Man instruments: "pre-EB" does not automatically mean "3-bolt" or "micro tilt neck joint" or "string through body bridge" or "black epoxy preamp" or "toggle switch electronics". Those features were changed 3-4 years before EB took over.

 

[Jim C]

Lucky you, I've had over 50 of the Pre Ernie Balls and out of all of them 2 we're great the others sucked, Now I have 295 Ernie Ball and 295 Play and sound Great.

If this were true, the brand would have never survived.

Personally, I think the EB basses are much more consistent and are very fine intruments. Now that there are Classics, there really is no need to lust after the older models.
As far as weight goes, I think these unit to unit inconsistencies existed since day one. The Perfect Bass lists actual weights; spend a few months monitoring their inventory and you will see they range from high 8 lbs. to high 10 lbs., just like they always have.
OTOH, there were a few oldies that were just stupid heavy but these were the excpetion IMO.

 

[scottbass71]

I think its the attitude they don't make em like they use to - even if it is wrong

I mean it is every where Pre-cbs F@nders, Pre-CBS Tobias, I even see it with L@kland as well.

I have a few Pre-ebs they a great instruments but I still prefer the EBs

They refined and even added to the design like body contours to the SR, A Pre-amp that doesn't blow up if you accidently short the output, better truss rod system to name a few.

I little story when I bought my 1st Pre in 1994 the Vintage guitar sales man said "You want the original stingray not the mcdonalds stingray"

He saw EB buying Musicman they same as CBS buying F@nder as we know is completely wrong EB is a family company that has had a long history in the music industry compared to CBS which saw f@nder as another money making asset on their balance sheet!!

They only good thing about it my Pres keeping increasing in value!!!

 

[mynan]

If this were true, the brand would have never survived.

Actually, it wouldn't have survived if Ernie Ball hadn't saved it. It was tanking when they bought it.