Wiring HH as HS?

[Swiss Frank]

I know StingRay 5 HS's always had a phantom single coil inside, to hum-cancel the single-coil settings.

A salesman told me yesterday that the current HS's no longer need that. I assume the single coils are now hum-free by themselves (as say Fender noiseless pickups are).

If so, given how few new or used HS's are out there to choose from, what about rewiring the more-common HH to the HS setup? That would also give options for a neck H sound if you wanted it. My specific questions are:

1) are the current SR5 HS pickups are truly hum-free even in single mode? Or was my salesman mistaken?

2) if so, are the same pickups also in the HH models?

3) are the pickups in the HH models 4-wire? (3-wire wouldn't be good enough for what I have in mind)

4) (a Hail Mary pass) if the HH pickups aren't hum-free, but are 4-wire, is there enough room in an HH to add a dummy coil??? and are such coils simply regular pickups? if I could ever even find one?

5) Is the switch inside an HH a four-pole five-throw "superstrat" switch? If not, would one of those just screw into place?

Note I'm an engineer and have rewired many guitars. My question isn't about switch schematics, etc, but rather specifically about the EBMM pickups.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

I'm not an engineer, but I am a journeyman electrician by trade (read: give me a diagram and I'll make it so, haha!), and have also been curious lately about different wiring/switching options. I'll watch this thread as diligently as I'm able to.

 

[Mu5icM@n]

I don't think this is possible without hum. The HS basses have a special hum-cancelling inductor on the circuit board which I don't believe is present on the HH's. At least--MY HS basses have such an inductor; I don't have an HH to compare to though.

td

 

[Swiss Frank]

If the answers are no, yes, yes, yes, and yes, then this circuit would give a switch to turn an HH into an HS at your command. It also includes a serial/parallel switch that works in all five modes. Total would be 16 sounds.

 

[Golem]

It would seem that such a "hum canceling inductor"
[on the circuit board] is simply a miniature dummy
PU for the HS models. OTOH the HH models would
not need such a dummy cuz they always play two
or four coils in humbucking combinations. Altering
which combinations are in play [rewiring the blade
switch] would engage coils that are NOT in proper
humbucking combinations.

 

[Swiss Frank]

Hey Golem,

A local shop with a new Stingray5 HS for sale opened it up for me and the current production has a real, entire, single coil in there as a phantom. The inductor you describe may be for other models or possibly for past Stingray5's.

> OTOH the HH models would
not need such a dummy cuz they always play two
or four coils in humbucking combinations.

Well, the HH models would not need such a dummy... if you were willing to do without the single-bridge and single-neck sounds, both quite popular thanks to 55 years of Jazz Basses...

My immediate goal is the bridge single, neck single, bridge and neck singles, and bridge humbucker. So the HS is a great start. In addition though I'd like the HH sounds. I've made a wiring diagram that will all the HH sounds and HS sounds and has a serial/parallel switch for all modes.

 

[Golem]

Hey Golem, .........

My immediate goal is the
bridge single, neck single,
bridge and neck singles,
and bridge humbucker.
So the HS is a great start.
..........

Your desired "bridge & neck singles" is the ONLY
config thaz not provided by the factory default
wiring of an HS. The closest config on the 5-way
switch is the full house, all 3 coils. By definition,
this is the "bridge and neck singles" tone plus a
bit more warmth added by completing the bridge
humbucker. If thaz not close enuf for you, then
you deserve a beautifully framed ready-to-hang
official Certificate of Tone Geekism

I confess to a dose of Geekism myself, but I'm
not entitled to a Certificate, due to my general
willingness to compromise. I'm aware that there
are basses having more controls than AirForce-1,
but they also cost almost as much as AF-1, thus
my willingness to compromise ! Also, I consider
that Tone Geekism is really musical Onanism in
that you may get some pleasure out of it, which
does matter to some degree, but your audience
and band mates don't really give a ratzass.

BTW, whilst on the Tone Geek Channel, if you're
comparing some of the HS tones to some of the
HH tones, either consider that you're comparing
not just PU configs but also series versus parallel
wiring, or your Certificate will be null and void :-(

EDIT:
Wanna muddy the waters a bit more ? Since you
are comparing 5-string basses, there's no physical
difference between an SR5 and Sterling 5, same
neck and all. Also all the coil selection choices are
the same, but the type of PUs is different. Maybe
there is also some differences concerning series
vs parallel wiring, but I'm not sure. Still, if you're
willing to settle for whatever factory wiring is the
least compromised vs your ideal, then do realize
there's not just 2 but all of 4 choices to compare.

 

[Swiss Frank]

> Your desired "bridge & neck singles" is the ONLY config thaz not provided by the factory default wiring of an HS.

Position 4 (counting from bridge) is bridge #2 and neck #3 in parallel. I'll meet you halfway and happily agree that the #2 coil isn't THE closest to the bridge, but in my book it's still the bridge, the way I name them. If you want to say that's not the bridge then I agree that your way of counting them is also a reasonable way to count them.

I will say that mixed with the neck single, it will be almost impossible to hear the difference between 1 & 3 that I think you'd call "single neck and bridge" and the 2 & 3 that the HS has and that I'd be willing to call "single neck and bridge".

To rewire this you'd just swap the neck and phantom coils I think, then move 4 solder points on the big switch. I'll confirm once my HS shows up.

http://static.music-man.com.s3-us-w...2016-01-01/CFD+StingRay5+HS+Bass+20160101.pdf

> I'm aware that there are basses having more controls than AirForce-1, but they also cost almost as much as AF-1

My circuit diagram only needs one extra two-position switch for the HH/HS functionality. Up HH, Down HS. Not complicated, not much in the way of cost. There's the cost of the extra pickup needed whichever bass you start with, of course, and the routing, but it shouldn't be much.

> whilst on the Tone Geek Channel, if you're comparing some of the HS tones to some of the HH tones, either consider that you're comparing not just PU configs but also series versus parallel wiring

They'd be the same, from what I can see, except the HH's coils are 1/2 a coil width away from where they are on the HS. Should be almost inaudible in practice.

My full circuit diagram DOES include a serial/parallel switch that would give you the HH middle position, which is "two coils in serial, in parallel with two other coils in serial." The equivalent HS position is four coils in parallel, which would have a much higher resonant peak. I modified the diagram to highlight that.


Ultimately, if you ignore coils being a half-coil-width different position, my circuit diagram gives you 16 sounds that truly include every Stingray5 HH and HS sound, including copying exactly the differences of parallel/serial.

http://static.music-man.com.s3-us-w...2016-01-01/CFD+StingRay5+HH+Bass+20160101.pdf

 

[Golem]

Seems like you've got it down.

Assuming it all proves worthwhile, it would be
a good service to publish/post the schematic
and some laymen's language instructions for
anyone who wants to go to their fave luthier
to copy your result. Not all luthiers can can
work strictly by a schematic despite fine skill
at woodworking and soldering, thus the idea
of including laymen's language.

BTW my fave HS config on both Sterlings and
Rays is the neck and middle coils. To me this
is the P-Bass idea but more "evolved", a bit
less primitive but not overly "Moh-derne"

I'm not one of those dinosaurs questing for a
P-bass tone, but I mention it as a known point
of reference, since describing tone in words is
a tricky thing.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

Seems like you've got it down.

Assuming it all proves worthwhile, it would be
a good service to publish/post the schematic
and some laymen's language instructions for
anyone who wants to go to there fave luthier
to copy your result. Not all luthiers can can
work strictly by a schematic despite fine skill
at woodworking and soldering, thus the idea
of including laymen's language.

Hear, hear!

 

[Edmang]

Actually... sounds like the OP should try and find a Game Changer. Would give you any pickup configs you want

 

[Swiss Frank]

Yes and no... I want a Stingray 5 body. And I think the schematic I shared earlier gives me everything I want. I'll agree that the Game Changer was interesting though!

 

[Swiss Frank]

Golem now that I have an HS I'm just playing with it as is. At some point I'll definitely add the serial/parallel switch, and make hi-res photos and a youtube vid available.

A bit further down the road but I MIGHT additionally turn my "HS with phantom" into the full "HH with phantom" shown on my diagram. And again I'd totally document that for the group.

 

[Golem]

Unless the HS just grows on you ....

I've got three of them, but thaz not
how I mean the idea of "grows"
Clearly, I dig them simply 'as-built'.

Anywho, when you decide to mod it
you really should get an extra one to
keep unmodded as an original point
of reference and cuz, well, cuz more
is more ... two being more than one
and such like. Never mind that you
could just flip the switch to compare
original to modded tone ... see, thaz
just NOT what MORE is all about