Sabre made in 1985 with 3EQ preamp(?)

[basshista]

I recently purchased a 1985 sabre bass in the quite common for that period honey burst finish.
The bass has 1985 stamps on the body and neck and has correct 4 bolt plate and truss rod position, no made in SLO decal on the rear of the headstock and all the usual early EB features. What is not period correct is a 3 band eq that is supposed to be introduced 2 years later. Nevertheless the 3 band looks stock with correct impedances (25k for volume and 50 k for the frequences) and the jack input routing (characteristic of the 3 band since for the 2 is on the control plate) looks factory made, too. Furthermore pots dates are in the 1983-1985 span.
Does anybody know if 3 band prototypes were made vefore 1987 and/or if 3 band retrofitting for original 2 band basses was provided in case of customer request after 1987?
Thanks for any info you can provide on the subject

 

[kevins]

At about 2:30 in this video they say the bass in the video is the first ebmm made, note the eq on it is a 3eq. So they certainly had the 3eq technology. If someone replaced it they replaced it with an 87 preamp I think. That looks identical to the 3banders from back then. There’s some other things that are off about it, namely that all the honeybursts made in 86 and 87 were ultra light swamp ash! If it doesn’t appear to be swamp ash I’d say maybe a prototype actually.

Actually upon further inspection I’m 99% sure it’s a prototype or a very early 3eq or some other mystery

look at that input jack, it’s painted underneath the control plate and the hole itself is painted. meaning the body finish was sprayed with that hole in the input jack. There’s no signs that it was sprayed over after someone cut the hole to convert it into a 3eq style input jack. A converted 2eq would have signs that the input jack was drilled after the bass was finished.

 

[liverbird]

Do you have photos of the neck pocket and pickup cavity?

Going by your pics, the finish looks original. It was actually called Sunburst back in the day and only later (around 1999) renamed Honey Burst.

From what I recall, the 1984 StingRay in the video above was retrofitted with a 3-band EQ at a later stage. Our esteemed moderator, Rod Trussbroken, will know.

As for the ultra-light ash bodies - I have a copy of an info sheet for the Sabre from around 1987 which says that "Honey Sunburst" bodies are of ultra-light ash. It doesn't specify swamp ash, however. Whether that refers to the Sabre only or also applies to other models from those years, I don't know. I have a 1988/9 Sunburst Sabre which is 8.1 lbs and a 1989 Sunburst SR4 which is 8.5 lbs - so that would tally with that, albeit it's a very small sample!

As for the 3-band on this 1985 - kevins makes a good point about the hole for the input jack being painted. If the finish is indeed original, it would suggest that it was cut before finishing. Hence the request for the neck pocket pic!

Generally, wether the side-mounted holes for jack are free of paint or not, seems to depend on the model. All my 3-band 4-strings from 1988 to 1990, SR4 and Sabre, have holes with no paint on the wall, whereas all my SR5s from those years have paint on the walls. Which would suggest that they cut the hole on the SR5 before finishing, whereas on the SR4 and Sabre finishing was done before the hole was cut.

This bass doesn't fit that pattern, however.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Nice!

The first SR4 (1984 B022437) in the Vault Video above originally did have a 2EQ preamp. It was subsequently converted and used as a mule for research and development of the new 3EQ preamp. This was explained by BP in a previous thread.

Maybe we have the same type of thing going on with the present Bass?

 

[basshista]

Do you have photos of the neck pocket and pickup cavity?

Going by your pics, the finish looks original. It was actually called Sunburst back in the day and only later (around 1999) renamed Honey Burst.

From what I recall, the 1984 StingRay in the video above was retrofitted with a 3-band EQ at a later stage. Our esteemed moderator, Rod Trussbroken, will know.

As for the ultra-light ash bodies - I have a copy of an info sheet for the Sabre from around 1987 which says that "Honey Sunburst" bodies are of ultra-light ash. It doesn't specify swamp ash, however. Whether that refers to the Sabre only or also applies to other models from those years, I don't know. I have a 1988/9 Sunburst Sabre which is 8.1 lbs and a 1989 Sunburst SR4 which is 8.5 lbs - so that would tally with that, albeit it's a very small sample!

As for the 3-band on this 1985 - kevins makes a good point about the hole for the input jack being painted. If the finish is indeed original, it would suggest that it was cut before finishing. Hence the request for the neck pocket pic!

Generally, wether the side-mounted holes for jack are free of paint or not, seems to depend on the model. All my 3-band 4-strings from 1988 to 1990, SR4 and Sabre, have holes with no paint on the wall, whereas all my SR5s from those years have paint on the walls. Which would suggest that they cut the hole on the SR5 before finishing, whereas on the SR4 and Sabre finishing was done before the hole was cut.

This bass doesn't fit that pattern, however.

 

[liverbird]

As far as I can tell, there‘s nothing in those pics that would suggest a refin.

However, if it was a later retrofit for a 3-band, as with the bass in the Vault Video, you would expect the side-mounted hole for the jack to be free of paint because it would have been cut out of an original finish. Very mysterious!

 

[kevins]

As far as I can tell, there‘s nothing in those pics that would suggest a refin.

However, if it was a later retrofit for a 3-band, as with the bass in the Vault Video, you would expect the side-mounted hole for the jack to be free of paint because it would have been cut out of an original finish. Very mysterious!

Yeah and you hear stories that the Sabre wasn’t a good seller early on and that there were attempts to differentiate it from the stingray, they switched out the pickups in 83, switched out the preamp really early on too I think it goes from the b4 to the b5 in the first year, and the introduction of a blade switch in 83. The thing that’s so baffling about this one to me and really kinda amazing is that the pots are from 83, that with the fact that that hole is finished has me thinking it could even be one of the very first 3eq basses

 

[Bert]

The original jack of the 3-band production models in 1987 were in a different position.
Yours is centered with the two screws (like a 3-band StingRay). Usually the Sabre jack sits more towards the bass knob (see pics).
Could still be an early 3-band from the factory.




1988 Sabre

 

[basshista]

The original jack of the 3-band production models in 1987 were in a different position.
Yours is centered with the two screws (like a 3-band StingRay). Usually the Sabre jack sits more towards the bass knob (see pics).
Could still be an early 3-band from the factory.

View attachment 39395
View attachment 39397
View attachment 39396
1988 Sabre

Thanks!

Googling around I found these two:

1985 1986 Music Man Sabre Unlined Fretless Trans Green | Reverb

Cosmetic Condition: Various play wear, mostly concentrated on the back and sides, consisting of dings, dents, and scratches. None are majorly through the finish into the wood but it's getting there. Some wear below the string-holes at the bridge (from changing strings over the years) but the...

reverb.com

1986 Ernie Ball Music Man Sabre Bass

For sale is a 1986 Ernie Ball Music Man Sabre Bass with non original bag. This bass guitar is in very good condition and in perfect working order. There are some scratches, dings, wear on the back, and finish checking. Overall, I would give it a solid 7.5 out of 10 condition. The bridge is from...

guitarchimp.com

The first has 1985 body and 1986 neck, 3 band. not possible to see jack input position
The 2nd is claimed 1986 (no neck or body dates shown) , 3 band and jack position the same as mine (stingray position)

 

[liverbird]

Kevins, pots predating the completion of an instrument sometimes by several years is not unusual for the era.

For example, my 1988 Sabres have pots from 1985, 1982 and 1979. My 1989 Sunburst StingRay has pots from 1988, 1983 and 1979, and so on. Quite common.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Perhaps this Sabre is actually a 1987 instrument ???

Even though the neck and body are both dated 1985, that doesn't mean the instrument left the factory in 1985. The dates are only when the neck and body were made.

What about the serial number. May or may not help. Jan 1987 is when serial records began. Each Bass serial (and date) is recorded when an instrument is being dispatch from the factory (its DOB). It's not unusual to have parts made earlier. Pre-EB serials were not included in the records. However, Pre-EB serials (with their related Pre-EB bridges) can be found up to the end of 1987.

If this instrument is a 1987, but has a Pre-EB bridge & serial beginning with B022xxx, then, unfortunately, it's not going to be on the EB records.

 

[basshista]

Perhaps this Sabre is actually a 1987 instrument ???

Even though the neck and body are both dated 1985, that doesn't mean the instrument left the factory in 1985. The dates are only when the neck and body were made.

What about the serial number. May or may not help. Jan 1987 is when serial records began. Each Bass serial (and date) is recorded when an instrument is being dispatch from the factory (its DOB). It's not unusual to have parts made earlier. Pre-EB serials were not included in the records. However, Pre-EB serials (with their related Pre-EB bridges) can be found up to the end of 1987.

If this instrument is a 1987, but has a Pre-EB bridge & serial beginning with B022xxx, then, unfortunately, it's not going to be on the EB records.

It could be. The only strange thing would remain the "made in USA" neckplate....

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

It could be. The only strange thing would remain the "made in USA" neckplate....

.
Back in 1985 a mix of Pre-EB and EB parts were being used concurrently. Some instruments had neck plates that were marked "Made in USA" (a Pre-EB feature). Plates without the markings are EB.

I've been looking at early EB Sting Rays. I found two on the list that have 3EQ preamps (B023355 & B023716). Both have 1985 neck and body dates. When recording them I'd presumed they'd been converted to 3EQ due to their 1985 stamps. I kept files on each. Only B023716 has a neck plate with "Made In USA". In the advert for the same Bass the seller states that the Instrument is "all original".

Perhaps these are 1987 instruments or instruments that have been modified. Any ones guess.

Let me know if anyone wants pics.

 

[basshista]

Kevins, pots predating the completion of an instrument sometimes by several years is not unusual for the era.

For example, my 1988 Sabres have pots from 1985, 1982 and 1979. My 1989 Sunburst StingRay has pots from 1988, 1983 and 1979, and so on. Quite common.

Yes this is common but these are 50k pots. Can we think that Ernieball bought a big stock of 50k pots in 1983 when on 2 band preamp such a resistance was not used? Or CTS had a leftover 1983 pots stock still in 1987?

 

[kevins]

Yes! With the 50k pots dating that far back...That’s why it’s so mysterious and crazy, and potentially I mean just judging by the output hole, maybe the first 3eq Sabre?!

 

[basshista]

Just seen this on reverb
Same features as mine…

Vintage 1985 Ernie Ball Music Man Sabre Bass Pre-EB Serial# Red 3EQ Preamp Nice Finish Checking | Reverb

Vintage 1985 Ernie Ball Music Man Sabre Bass Pre-EB Serial# Red All original 3EQ PreampThis is a rare Ernie Ball MM bass that is in great condition for its age and displays beautiful finish checking. It was common in this era for them to use a combination of pre-Ernie Ball parts w...

reverb.com

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

I now have a record of six 1985 era Basses (including the one just posted above) that have a 3EQ preamp.. What are the chances of all these 1985 Basses being modified by their owners? On top of that, the Sabre just posted above and basshista's Sabre (posted at the opening of this thread) both appear to have their output jacks routed jn the same position.

 

[kevins]

I now have a record of six 1985 era Basses (including the one just posted above) that have a 3EQ preamp.. What are the chances of all these 1985 Basses being modified by their owners? On top of that, the Sabre just posted above and basshista's Sabre (posted at the opening of this thread) both appear to have their output jacks routed jn the same position.

I agree! I think it’s original, especially with the way the paint is done too. That paint was applied with a sprayer and not brushed in. If these were mods, they’d have had to be done by the same guy! There’s no reason for someone to paint in that hole for the 3 band, matching part of a burst finish with some spray paint even would take a ton of time. Which I don’t think is the case!

 

[balkanfor]

he 1984 StingRay in the video above was retrofitted with a 3-band EQ at a later stage
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