LukeIII 2022 Pickups and preamps and issues and stuff..

[Adder]

I have posted elswhere about this in the last couple days but thought this might get more attention here.
I have noticed that the output on my Luke III 2022 version with High output MM pickups fitted (was the next update after the Transitions I believe).
I have noticed that compeared to a Dimarzio SD pickup, the output of the MM pickup is around 6 db quieter. I first noticed this when using a Shure wireless system and had to increase the gain on the reciever by 6dB to match my other guitar using a Dmiarzio Super Distortion.
To eliminate the Wireless maybe not reading accurately, I recorded the DI using a guitar cable on Studio One to see the difference and can confirm around 6dB difference
My question - Is this correct? does the L3 have this output or is this abnormal?

Top line - Luke III, Bottom line Custom V using Dimarzio SD pups

 

[beej]

That doesn't look right. Could it be that one coil of the HB is shorting out (like the B&W wires are connected on the board pads)? Does it sound thinner like a single coil? Could you post a sound clip?

 

[dibart77]

There is a short somewhere. Is this a HH or an HSS? If it's HH, is the neck pickup hotter and more like what you'd expect?

 

[Adder]

There is a short somewhere. Is this a HH or an HSS? If it's HH, is the neck pickup hotter and more like what you'd expect?

A short? I hope not. this is another Brand new guitar!!
So, I called MM and they have said this is not outside of what they would expect to see. its a vintage voiced Pickup. the Bridge and Neck pickups (HH) are the same volume. I dont know whether I would call it a "High output " pickup. im gonna get some DM Transitions and compare

 

[Adder]

Heres the link for the above posted DI

MM test.wav

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[DrKev]

My thoughts having listened to the clip - it sounds about right to me.

Remember, the the super distortion is one of the loudest pickups DiMarzio have ever made, and you are comparing it in a different guitar. I looked for similar comparisons online and the SD is obviously quite a few dB louder than the Tone Zone, which which itself should be noticeably hotter than and vintage style. So, yeah, I agree with Music Man, I think it's about right. And sonically, that Luke pickup sounds really good too, which suggests the coils and wiring are just fine.

 

[Adder]

My thoughts having listened to the clip - it sounds about right to me.

Remember, the the super distortion is one of the loudest pickups DiMarzio have ever made, and you are comparing it in a different guitar. I looked for similar comparisons online and the SD is obviously quite a few dB louder than the Tone Zone, which which itself should be noticeably hotter than and vintage style. So, yeah, I agree with Music Man, I think it's about right. And sonically, that Luke pickup sounds really good too, which suggests the coils and wiring are just fine.

Thanks Dr Kev, after mulling this around for a Day, I agree with you. Some other googling re pickup volume has indicated there can be up 8dB differences between the various high and low output pickups. The lower output of the Luke makes it ideal for blues and expressive tones.

 

[Rbg]

I am not sure why voltage output is an issue? With the preamp you get extra 12-20bd, so voltage swing is there. It is a character, tone, compression, frequency response we are talking about. If pickups are not voiced to have that saturation/compression in the mid, they will not be for metal tones no matter how much “transparent” boost you give it. My point of view on the topic. Hope you will figure it out. If you decide to try transition I have brand new injectors+transition I am not using (just in case)

 

[Adder]

I am not sure why voltage output is an issue? With the preamp you get extra 12-20bd, so voltage swing is there. It is a character, tone, compression, frequency response we are talking about. If pickups are not voiced to have that saturation/compression in the mid, they will not be for metal tones no matter how much “transparent” boost you give it. My point of view on the topic. Hope you will figure it out. If you decide to try transition I have brand new injectors+transition I am not using (just in case)

I dont know whether I would call it an "issue" more like an observation that I wanted clarified.
Talking to the MM team, the boost uses the battery to apply gain to the signal, No Boost does not affect the output gain only the active EQ and therefore you cannot adjust the default output of the LUKE without pushing the Vol Knob out.
Bottom line is i have two very different guitars with two very different outputs into a guitar amp. you can see where im going with this in terms of compression into the Preamp and also into a Fractal AXFXIII (like Petrucci etc). the input into the unit can be set to optimum. when changing guitars with different outputs as extreme as my case it hits the unit either too weak the unit clips.
I have two options here, I can either keep pushing the input gain button six times to compensate between the two guitars or maybe get a higher output pickup to get the two guitars close in output. Im curious so I might even shove in the Dimarzio SD pickup in the LUKE and see how it sounds to make sure output gains are translated and.. well, cos I can. lol. IMO pickups / Amps / Speakers make the biggest diference in guitar tones.
I have some soldering to do.

 

[DrKev]

I have two options here, I can either keep pushing the input gain button six times to compensate between the two guitars or maybe get a higher output pickup to get the two guitars close in output. Im curious so I might even shove in the Dimarzio SD pickup in the LUKE and see how it sounds to make sure output gains are translated and.. well, cos I can. lol. IMO pickups / Amps / Speakers make the biggest diference in guitar tones.
I have some soldering to do.

Option three: clean boost pedal. Something mini in size is ideal, TC Spark Boost mini, Keeley Katana, Xotic Super Sweet, are single knob all would do the job really well. Ibanez Booster mini, MXR Booster, have tone shaping options too. Buy used and you can try it out, flip the pedal if you don't like it, and you'll sell it for the almost the same price you bought it. It's just par for the course when we have guitars with differing outputs. And can cost less than new pickups too.

 

[Adder]

Option three: clean boost pedal. Something mini in size is ideal, TC Spark Boost mini, Keeley Katana, Xotic Super Sweet, are single knob all would do the job really well. Ibanez Booster mini, MXR Booster, have tone shaping options too. Buy used and you can try it out, flip the pedal if you don't like it, and you'll sell it for the almost the same price you bought it. It's just par for the course when we have guitars with differing outputs. And can cost less than new pickups too.

I do believe this is the ticket! A nice bunch of picks you have there! RC Booster might work too, what do you think?

 

[Rbg]

Friedman Buxom Boost the one I like

 

[DrKev]

RC Booster might work too, what do you think?

I have no experience with it, but sure. If you are going for a full size pedal, the TC Spark Boost is a similar option too and arguably more versatile.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

How much do you "need" the pickup compensation in position 2 and 4? If you lift one particular cable end on the 5-way with a soldering iron, you can make it work for all positions of the 5-way. Then you can boost the whole output with the pickup compensation trim pot. Granted, since the compensation now is for all positions, positions 2 and 4 will be lower in output compared to the full on humbuckers.*

*(You could actually work around this by adding a trim pot on the 5-way).

EDIT:

I still think something is off. I did a DI of my 2020 HH LIII (MM pickups), and compared it to your clip. The order of the clips are:

1: Your LIII
2: My LIII (DI level lowered by 7 dB)
3: Your Super Distortion
4: My LIII (unity gain)

https://soundcloud.com/user166498791%2Fpickup-comparision
Although I can't know for sure that your clips were recorded at unity gain compared to mine, there is something interesting in the tone. Listen how thin your LIII is compared to my guitar. Mine sounds much more like the Super Distortion. Not quite as dark though, but that is to be expected.

I don't know if the level of my LIII being very close to the SD is just pure luck, or an actual representation of the comparative output levels, but it's worth noting.

 

[Adder]

EDIT:

I still think something is off. I did a DI of my 2020 HH LIII (MM pickups), and compared it to your clip. The order of the clips are:

1: Your LIII
2: My LIII (DI level lowered by 7 dB)
3: Your Super Distortion
4: My LIII (unity gain)

https://soundcloud.com/user166498791%2Fpickup-comparision
Although I can't know for sure that your clips were recorded at unity gain compared to mine, there is something interesting in the tone. Listen how thin your LIII is compared to my guitar. Mine sounds much more like the Super Distortion. Not quite as dark though, but that is to be expected.

I don't know if the level of my LIII being very close to the SD is just pure luck, or an actual representation of the comparative output levels, but it's worth noting.

Thank you for taking the time to do this. I honor your status as a Guitar Nerd lol.
Now im right back square one on this. Im going to get MM to take a look at this and advise me before I do anything. At this point I dont know what pickups I have compared to yours. I believe there was an update to the MM pickups to make them high gain. maybe you got them and I dont. who knows as I dont see a history timeline on all the LUKE changes over the years.

 

[Rbg]

I don't think there was an update. From what I know the pickups were EMGs (singles were updated from to SLV and then all to X series), then transition, then MM custom and now HT. I doubt they were any major changes in-between that would significantly affect the output. Again, these are Luke signature models and I can not see why he would go with lower output pickups and then change his mind in a bit. Remember, MM custom humbuckers were the short lasting pickups in the model line and when they switch to them they made a big announcement (make sense from the marketing point of view). As soon as Luke decided to move on and use HTs they made it L4s. I don't think there is some mystery there with different pickups in different years. It is either something wrong and MM will help you to figure it out, or you just don't like the pickups. For the record I do not like that much either and will swapping at some point (soon).

As a side note EMGs in my L2 are just killing it, super consistent and sound even better when I put 24V batteries in there

 

[Gemmy]

I do believe this is the ticket! A nice bunch of picks you have there! RC Booster might work too, what do you think?

plenty of guitarists have a clean boost pedal they leave on always.

 

[Adder]

There is a short somewhere. Is this a HH or an HSS? If it's HH, is the neck pickup hotter and more like what you'd expect?

In frustration, I pulled out the MM pickups and replaced them with a couple of spare Seymour Duncan Jazz bridge and neck pickups. The output increase was nothing short of spectacular. Totally up there with my Super distortion. I checked the MM on a multimeter and my MM Bridge pickup had Zero response on the one coil and 679k on the other. Seems my MM Humbuckers are wired single coil only. have contacted MM (Friday am) and waiting for a reply.
You were right dibart77

 

[guitarnerdswe]

In frustration, I pulled out the MM pickups and replaced them with a couple of spare Seymour Duncan Jazz bridge and neck pickups. The output increase was nothing short of spectacular. Totally up there with my Super distortion. I checked the MM on a multimeter and my MM Bridge pickup had Zero response on the one coil and 679k on the other. Seems my MM Humbuckers are wired single coil only. have contacted MM (Friday am) and waiting for a reply.
You were right dibart77

I assume you mean 6.79 k, and that sounds correct for the one coil of the bridge humbucker. Glad you found the fault! Is your neck humbucker all right? Should read about 10-11 k. If that is also off, then MM should replace that too for you.

 

[Adder]

I assume you mean 6.79 k, and that sounds correct for the one coil of the bridge humbucker. Glad you found the fault! Is your neck humbucker all right? Should read about 10-11 k. If that is also off, then MM should replace that too for you.

Yeah thanks, 6.79k And yes, the neck pickup only reads 6.85k which is why both pickup volumes were similar.