Axis SS tuning issue

[RichD]

Hi all...before I take it to the shop, I wonder if any of you have experienced this.

I have a beautiful 2024 Axis Super Sport. My classic rock band plays a half step down. I've played it for a year with the factory setup and noticed tuning issues up the neck. Realized I never intonated the guitar for Eb tuning. So...I put a new set of NYXL 9-42's and intonated the guitar for that gauge and that tuning. Now, each time I *touch* the bar, the low 4 strings go sharp. I don't need to dive bomb but would like a little wobble for subtle touches.

Driving myself crazy with a strobe tuner, screwdriver, hex keys trying to uncover the root of the problem.

Wouldn't call myself an expert but I've taken these steps:
- Stretched the crap out of the strings...and been playing on them for the last 3-4 days
- Music Nomad nut lube (and on all contact points). No pinging happening anywhere.
- Watched DrKev's bridge height video and have done my best to follow those steps
- Neck relief is good according to the videos and EBMM's FAQ page
- Played with spring tension...3 springs, 2 springs...currently all 5 in and locked down to get thru the gig tomorrow night. Worked to make sure tension was even across the bridge.

I've owned several EBMM's...EVH/Axis, SILO and LIII but haven't really run into this issue. This would be my first run in with the solid saddles (vs the vintage or Gotoh...)

I'm at a loss. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[tbonesullivan]

So you have the bridge floating a bit? Did you lubricate the knife edges on the tremolo? Only the lower four strings going sharp is a bit weird. Sounds almost like there may be an issue with the lower bridge stud.

 

[RichD]

So you have the bridge floating a bit? Did you lubricate the knife edges on the tremolo? Only the lower four strings going sharp is a bit weird. Sounds almost like there may be an issue with the lower bridge stud.

Thanks for your reply. No…not floating at all (though I tried it unsuccessfully) and yes I’ve greased every contact point. Yours is a good suggestion. Also going to try a slightly heavier string gauge to see if that helps.

Also noticing that any downward pressure on the saddles unsettles the tuning. No idea why. It was fine before I reintonated it but out of tune past the fifth fret. Maybe moving the saddles back unsettled the balance of the bridge plate. Idk…

Thanks again!

 

[DrKev]

Welcome to today's installment of "DrKev is incapable of writing quick or short forum posts".

Number of springs and their arrangement will make no difference at all. By all means experiment and see what you like the feel of but it's not the culprit here. Same for saddle positions after intonation.

…not floating at all (though I tried it unsuccessfully)...

That's a clue. If the bridge is the problem, it would have to tilt backwards, as if we pulled up on the trem arm, to make the strings go sharp. If the bridge is not floating, the bridge is set flat hard against the body that can't happen. That suggests it is not a bridge issue.

But if it's not a bridge issue, that can only mean a nut issue. But that too would be very odd, because at 9 - 42 and lubed, you should be good to go. (had you gone up in gauge to something heavier than 10 - 46, I would widen the string slots in the nut to accommodate the larger gauge).

If the guitar was on my bench in front of me, I would...

1) To be sure the bridge is doing (or not) what oughta (or oughtn't), if the back of the bridge lifts when we bend a string, tighten the trem claw screws in half turn increments until the back of the bridge does not move when you bend. That will ensure full but not excessive back pressure on the bridge and we can certain there is only our downward motion when using the trem bar and nothing else.

2) Use appropriately sized nut files to very gently clean the slots, make sure they were wide enough, and make sure the very back edge (towards the tuners) is slightly rounded rather than a sharp edge. Other than that, .

Re-Lubrification: With every string change I clean and lubricate the nut slots and saddle tops. I do not lube mounting posts on two-post style bridges. The bridge pivots on a knife edge at the front of the bridge plate which sits the notch of a 'V' on the mounting screw. As there is no surface-on-surface motion, only a rotation about a stationary point, there is no need to lube. Over time, lube that's not regularly cleaned and replaced can get dirty and sticky from dust and playing schmutz and that can't be helpful. (I do lube bridge the solid shaft portion of mounting screws only on 6-screw vintage Fender style bridges because the bridge needs to slide up and down the screws).

P.S. I should get bonus points of the use of "oughtn't".

K

 

[RichD]

Thanks so much DrKev! ‘Schmutz’ gets a kudo too.

I agree that spring tension isn’t the culprit. I can bend a full step at the 12th fret/G and there’s no movement. Let a tech look at it and he said nut slots were fine. Tried a different lube. Thought it was better but it’s still doing it. The low E(flat) and A(flat) come back sharp with any trem use.

IDK….could it just be a ‘schmutzy’ set of strings? Crazier things have happened. I’ll change them again and see if that helps.

Thanks so much for your time and super informative reply!

 

[DrKev]

@RichD The low E-string on my Cutlass (and on my old strat) alway went a little sharp with a little playing. Just enough to be annoying. The only thing I could think of was the string winding (in fact the gap between the windings) catching on the back edge of the nut slot. And I've just remembered I've dealt with this before in response to another forum member posting a problem, so let's see if the forum search engine still works...

Found it!

Help! - Help! Creaky neck and other neck issues Luke III

Hey guys, Would like to get some insight to a problem I’ve been having with my Luke III HH. I’ve had it for about a year now and it’s had some issues from the start. First issue with is was that the preamp was busted and wasn’t working. Turning the pots made crackle and there was only one spot...

forums.ernieball.com

Today is string change day for my Cutlass, I'll see if I can get photos of the back of the nut. Not sure how much it helps but it doesn't not help.

 

[RichD]

Wow…ok thanks! Not sure what else it could be so I will explore this for sure. Will keep you posted DrKev.

 

[RichD]

I *think* I've figured out the issue. Put a set of 9.5-44's on and gave each trem post a quarter turn higher (maybe a smidge less...)...reintonated for the new gauge and the tuning is holding better. Will stretch these strings in a hopefully they'll hold. Before the trem post adjustment, I could get a post-it note between the plate and the body, but I guess it needed a little more clearance than that...IDK but it seems to be improved (won't say *fixed* b/c = Murphy).

Thanks so much for your help!!