An observation of industry in America

[freedok]

My friends it has become obvious to me that the Ernie Ball Company is a champion amongst an endless list of failing companies in this country. I say this because I have been involved in the automotive industry here in Detroit since 1980. I am a tooling and product designer employed by one of those bankrupt automotive companies here in Michigan. By next month I will be looking for another design position when my employer closes the doors for good.

In the last 30 years there has been a multitude of changes in our countries way of doing business. The trend since the middle 70's till present was to survive in a global markret. Today, if your a manufacturer you must team up with a Chinese counterpart or equivelent in order to survive. It doesn't matter if your building automobiles or building musical instruments, it is almost impossible to survive fabricating a product solely with American labor. Seems to me Ernie Ball Company is doing exactly that. I believe that musicians are somewhat discriminating with regards to the quality and craftsmanship of their instruments. It is nice to know that my next bass will be manufactured by Americans in AMERICA! Hats off to the folks at Ernie Ball.

 

[kompressaur]

Leo Fender >P bass>J bass >Stingray> Ernie Ball> Sterling >Bongo > contentment

eg Yamaha > motorbikes > ugly 70s basses > flood market with RBX's > high end multi string basses > looking for a sale/trades for a Stingray 5

komp

 

[Bassplyr]

freedok, it's a damn shame about your job and the way production in this country is heading. Many are predicting a recession in the future because of it, but the feds will never admit it.

Good luck and I know you'll find something. It always seems to work out somehow.

 

[Big Poppa]

Freedok
Thanks.

I guess that we have stood the test of time by plugging away. We had slinky's to underwrite and enable us to take a high road. Slinky's covered our butts even recently when people werent that excited about our stuff. It has been a steady climb for the last twenty one years but not with out the occasional dips. Without them we would be ashes. So no awards for genius here. Actually venture capital that keeps hounding me...it doesnt understand why I dont leverage our manufacturing and designs by covering multiple price points and countries of origin. It just bores me to death. I can't do it.

We are sucessful now because we have found a space in the market that allows us to be a little different. We go against the grain because from the start being the biggest was not on our list of important items. I know that you guys and gals out there get frustrated that we keep coming out with new models and arent growing quick enough to keep up with the back order. We are trying but I know that we are very close to being as big as we can and maintain the quality and integrity of our stuff and still provide the proper customer service.

How long can we remain strong with the global clock working against us? How much longer can musicians pay for what we do? These are some of the questions that keep me up at night sometimes.

 

[Bassplyr]

BP, I gotta believe people will always pay for quality. It's when the quality is lowered at the same price that gets you in trouble.

 

[scottbass71]

Freedok sorry about your job
We too in Australia are seeing a lot of things shutdown and go off shore me being in electronics who knows what is round the corner. A lot I see is down to the botton line of making more profit we manufacture in Australia whe you can make 3 X as much in china etc. damn accountants and I can say that I studied accountancy.

my 2C

 

[Musicman Nut]

Oh BP

Freedok
Thanks.

I guess that we have stood the test of time by plugging away. We had slinky's to underwrite and enable us to take a high road. Slinky's covered our butts even recently when people werent that excited about our stuff. It has been a steady climb for the last twenty one years but not with out the occasional dips. Without them we would be ashes. So no awards for genius here. Actually venture capital that keeps hounding me...it doesnt understand why I dont leverage our manufacturing and designs by covering multiple price points and countries of origin. It just bores me to death. I can't do it.

We are sucessful now because we have found a space in the market that allows us to be a little different. We go against the grain because from the start being the biggest was not on our list of important items. I know that you guys and gals out there get frustrated that we keep coming out with new models and arent growing quick enough to keep up with the back order. We are trying but I know that we are very close to being as big as we can and maintain the quality and integrity of our stuff and still provide the proper customer service.

How long can we remain strong with the global clock working against us? How much longer can musicians pay for what we do? These are some of the questions that keep me up at night sometimes.

BP you just relax, when it slows down call, and l'll just buy many more. You guys are doing the best this country has seen. your good for a few more generations yet.

 

[phatduckk]

honor is a common theme in EBMM that every business should take note of.

i work in the web world and even i look to EBMM for an example when i get "stuck". "how do i better serve my user?". "how do i stay stable while keeping cost of adooption low?" "how do i innovate?" "how do i give them what they didnt know they wanted?" (think Bongo)... "bang for the buck"

 

[bdgotoh]

Backorders don't bother me at all, quite the opposite. I like the idea that your products are popular enough that you can't fill all of the orders immediately, it means demand is exceeding supply. That is much better than the other way around!

 

[Alz®]

Freedok
Thanks.

I guess that we have stood the test of time by plugging away. We had slinky's to underwrite and enable us to take a high road. Slinky's covered our butts even recently when people werent that excited about our stuff. It has been a steady climb for the last twenty one years but not with out the occasional dips. Without them we would be ashes. So no awards for genius here. Actually venture capital that keeps hounding me...it doesnt understand why I dont leverage our manufacturing and designs by covering multiple price points and countries of origin. It just bores me to death. I can't do it.

We are sucessful now because we have found a space in the market that allows us to be a little different. We go against the grain because from the start being the biggest was not on our list of important items. I know that you guys and gals out there get frustrated that we keep coming out with new models and arent growing quick enough to keep up with the back order. We are trying but I know that we are very close to being as big as we can and maintain the quality and integrity of our stuff and still provide the proper customer service.

How long can we remain strong with the global clock working against us? How much longer can musicians pay for what we do? These are some of the questions that keep me up at night sometimes.

Hey Big Poppa, you just keep plugging away there. Stick to your guns because the whole globalisation thing will turn full circle. In the not too distant future, Localisation will be all the rage. Just click on When Will the Joy Ride End? to see what I mean. :-(

It is also disgusting to see great american bass companies (some boutique manufacturers I might add) following the globalised route by outsourcing some if not all of their manufacturing processes to lower waged countries. This following list is by no means exhaustive.

Lakland - Skyline Series
Sadowsky - Metro Series
Ken Smith - KSD Series
Stuart Spector Design - CR & Korean Series

Yes, maybe these basses play alright, BUT they have cheapened their brands in order to try and become bigger.

Even though I don't play a EBMM bass at the moment, I did have a 1987 Stingray for about 11 years.....and will gladly go back to EBMM especially with the highly anticipated 6-string Bongo.

Thanks Sterling for keeping it real.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

My friends it has become obvious to me that the Ernie Ball Company is a champion amongst an endless list of failing companies in this country. I say this because I have been involved in the automotive industry here in Detroit since 1980. I am a tooling and product designer employed by one of those bankrupt automotive companies here in Michigan. By next month I will be looking for another design position when my employer closes the doors for good.

In the last 30 years there has been a multitude of changes in our countries way of doing business. The trend since the middle 70's till present was to survive in a global markret. Today, if your a manufacturer you must team up with a Chinese counterpart or equivelent in order to survive. It doesn't matter if your building automobiles or building musical instruments, it is almost impossible to survive fabricating a product solely with American labor. Seems to me Ernie Ball Company is doing exactly that. I believe that musicians are somewhat discriminating with regards to the quality and craftsmanship of their instruments. It is nice to know that my next bass will be manufactured by Americans in AMERICA! Hats off to the folks at Ernie Ball.

Hey Karl.

Long time since I've heard from you.

Well said!

(sorry to hear about your job)

 

[ekb16b]

sorry about ur job ,

i certainly agree with u about the quality and workmanship dedicated into each and every instrument that ebmm make, most of us buy ebmm due to it, also the fact that it will never disappoint you in anyway

 

[robelinda2]

EBMM is cool. I love these guitars!

 

[Jim_F]

"We are trying but I know that we are very close to being as big as we can and maintain the quality and integrity of our stuff and still provide the proper customer service."
Always very tricky to juggle and get right - from what I hear and see on the forums EB are doing a great job regarding the customer service side of things, and the fact that I haven't had to call customer services indicates that you are doing a great job on the quality of the EB product range too.

"How long can we remain strong with the global clock working against us? How much longer can musicians pay for what we do? These are some of the questions that keep me up at night sometimes."
I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for ... I have no objection to paying a bit more for a high end instrument whether it be a bass or 6 string if it looks good, plays good and sounds good, and I know it'll last me for years. EB satisfy ALL my requirements here, I think there is definitely a place in the market for EB's business philosophy of not compromising quality - this is one of the reasons I plan to continue enjoying and supporting EB products - just in the process of planning my next purchase, thinking seriously of adding a Bongo to my collection ...
however, as happy as I am with my Trace Elliott combo, I am sick of humping it up and down flights of stairs ... very interested in the new Markbass Minimark launched at the NAMM show - BP, anyone - any feedback on this combo?
So - new bass or new amp ...

 

[Big Poppa]

Dont blame Lakaland, Ken Smith, etal...this is not to be bigger, it is to survive. I really cant speak for them but I think Im qualified on the big picture.

This is a big and deep story.

We outsource thought and design and engineering to India. The India Institute of Technology is superior to MIT in academic standards and they have 10 campuses. We outsource our call centers to other countries to handle our customer service and expect them to be able to grasp the nuances of a very diverse country. We outsource our manufacturing. Finally we choose to shop for convenience and price at superstores that lack a depth of choice or quality because when the average American is given the choice of wanting a few personal items of high quality they instead choose to have every item at lesser quality.

So now we are a giant blob of a country that isnt thinking as much, is working enough, and isnt dealing with issues as much and votes with their dollar that promotes the cycle we are on.

Ok this is broad stroke worst case generalization and the issues run deeper but I fear a future of a country that was built on innovation and production no longer innovating or manufacturing. How do we support the economy? Does everyone make thier money behind a computer screeen?

I used to use the Pendulum theory...now I think with the speed of information it is more like the "metronome Theory" change happens much quicker.....

Our challenges become our opportunities. Pretty soon people will discover as you all have discovered a guitar that plays in tune and is set up properly and has integrity.

The biggest challenge we face as a company is how to continue to retain and recruit employees that face a nearly catastrophic cost of living in SLO. These people make a sacrifice every day to live and work here. SLO is the third most expensive place in the United States when you compare median income to median housing costs.

 

[freedok]

The reference to India is quite accurate. Approx. 3 years ago General Motors tried "secretly" to outsource all prototype work to India. Unigraphics in kahoots with GM agreed to "tool up" GM approved India tool shops with FREE seats of UG modeling software (a savings of about $18,000.00 U.S. per seat). We have learned through the grapevine that our friends in India are not so inclined to grasp the understanding of CNC machining nor do they have the aptitude to design the related tooling. Needless to say, the end result was disastrous with most programs being ressurected back here in the states. Unfortunately the auto companies have emphasized cost savings over quality and continue to source prototype work to India.

Don't come crying to me when your 2009 vehicle suddenly loses control and you end up in a ditch somewhere.

 

[WillPlay4Food]

I think the problem is everyone wants the lowest price, period. Many people have forgotten what true customer service is. When I need to hit the hardware store, I don't go to Home Cheapo or Blowes, I head to the little hardware store 6 buildings away from where I live.

Funny thing is, even though this store is 1/10th (at most) the size of these superstores, he always has what I need. It's also almost impossible to spend >$10 for the parts to fix whatever problem I'm having. This can't be the case at the superstores because they don't sell just the washer for the toilet flusher doohickey, they sell the whole doohickey only. I can't buy 3 screws, I have to buy a box of 8. All so they can have their perpetual inventory and JIT stock delivery and super efficiency blah blah blah.

The guy at the hardware store knows what he's talking about. He saves me money every time I go in there, even if it costs him a sale today. Because of this, I know where I'll go the next time I need parts.

 

[Big Poppa]

will play...why are they dinosaurs then? When will people wake up?

 

[Bartmanpdx]

My wife works for the world's largest computer chip maker as a manager of a group of Ph.D. engineers designing next-generation CPUs. It's some of the most advanced work on the planet, and her account of how her day went often makes my head hurt.

They do outsource some of their work to India. Not all of it, because it would be virtually impossible (at this time) to build one of their top-of-the-line fab plants there, but they do increasingly use non-American labor in the design process. It is a troubling trend.

The reason they outsource is not strictly financial. The fact is, there just aren't enough American E.E. Ph.D.s to fill the demand. As it is, her office building looks like the U.N. of geeks. About half of the engineers in her group are from overseas. The worst part of it is that these are the really high-paying jobs of the future. If the best jobs go overseas, we're in a really bad situation.

The economy is changing, and jobs are simultaneously being lost and created at a tremendous rate. However, our widely prevalent societal attitude of denigrating the importance of academic achievement could end up being one big thing that costs us the position of leading the world's economy. They're turning out huge numbers of Ph.D. engineers in India and China. It's only a matter of time before products are not only primarily made there, but also conceived, designed, and financed there as well.

 

[RitchieDarling]

EBMM? Simply put? The BEST!

I know that you guys and gals out there get frustrated that we keep coming out with new models.........

On the contrary, I am thrilled when I see a new model coming out. Even if it is something like the BFR LE that I can't have. It's still great to see that expertise.

..........and arent growing quick enough to keep up with the back order.

Back order? Don't care. Just call me when it's done.

We are trying but I know that we are very close to being as big as we can and maintain the quality and integrity of our stuff and still provide the proper customer service.

And you're doing a damn fine job of it! Zero complaints!

How long can we remain strong with the global clock working against us? How much longer can musicians pay for what we do?

For a good long while, I'd say! Quality, support, service, and the fact that you are all some of the nicest people I've ever met! You keep building! I'll keep buying!

Ritchie

P.S. I stopped for gas in Coachella last weekend. I got out of the car and looked all around. I didn't see BP anywhere!