Reconsidering EQ settings (Warning: Long post)

[Alvabass]

Hi everybody.

Just wanted to mention something that happened to me yesterday, share my thoughts about it and know whatever you have to say about it.

Two days ago, a very good old friend who has played with me in tropical bands for many years (playing keyboards) told me that he's recording one song in his (sort of) home studio. He asked me to record the bass track and, since it isn't intended as a commercial recording, he told me that he was going to send me a MIDI version through e-mail for me to use it as a guide, then record my performance at home and send the file to him through my personal server in .wav format.

It's a very simple uptempo tropical tune that requires an energetic performance. I prepared the same setup I've used for my YouTube videos: Bass to amp and amp's line out to sound card. Opened the recording software and played some random notes to make sure I got the maximum possible volume without clipping.

After a test recording, I noticed that the low-register notes sounded distorted when played hard in spite of the fact that no clipping was present in the waveform. I lowered my Bongo's volume and also lowered the sound card's input signal level. Same result, just with lower volume: Low notes distorted without clipping.

So here's the point: My Bongo's EQ settings for most situations (not for Jaco-type tone) are: Full lows, full hi-mids and full highs. Lo-mids around 75% and not favoring a particular pickup. With such extreme settings, I've always had to set my Bongo's volume knob at half (never had to do that with my previous instruments). That's been my starting point for my amp's live settings, and it always has worked for me. Most of the times I can set my amp's controls all flat with such EQ from my Bongo (for playing with a tropical band, at least).

But since lowering the volume didn't solve my recording problem, I decided to follow the advice of most folks here (Big Poppa included, of course) and set all Bongo controls to flat. Of course, that instantly allowed me to raise my volume. Recorded another take and the problem disappeared. I sent both versions to my friend and he was really pleased with the flat one.

So, this experience has made think about my settings. I plugged my Bongo into my Kustom Groove 1200 amp and tried starting all flat. Of course, the first difference is the volume knob, which now I can turn up if I want. After adjusting the amp's EQ curve with increased bass and a bit more treble, I don't feel a BIG difference in my tone and I think the added advantages will help me get used to it. Of course, the real test is on a gig, but anyway, right now I feel the same as when I found that scooping mids wasn't a good idea if I wanted my performance to be heard instead of just felt. I mean, a TOTALLY NEW approach for me (I played with scooped mids for many years since that's what tropical musicians like to hear from recordings, but fortunately my bandmates have realized that such approach isn't the best within a live band - not an easy task, of course).

So that was my experience yesterday. Maybe not a big deal, but I feel it like a turning point for me. Time will tell. Any comments or suggestions? Thank you for your time!

 

[adouglas]

Good post.

I agree that extreme boost settings aren't a good idea as a general rule, but if it's what worked for you, then that was the right thing to do in your case.

In my view, cranking everything all the way up is like taking a photograph and saturating all the colors. It's incredibly vivid, but it's just too much.....it's over the top for most tastes.

If I understand how all this stuff works (which I very well may not, and also not knowing exactly how the Bongo electronics are voiced), then cranking bass, treble and hi mids to the max, with low mids at 75% is doing nothing but boosting the overall signal...which you're then choking back with the volume control. Like standing on the throttle and riding the brake at the same time.

Setting bass, treble and hi mids flat, cutting the low mids 25%, and boosting your volume should give you the same tone without pushing the preamp into distortion, shouldn't it?

The only time I ever use extreme settings is when I want to completely cut some frequencies. For old 60s songs (like early Beatles) that call for a lo-fi vibe, I kill the hi mids and treble completely, leaving the rest of my settings as usual (about 70 percent lo mids, bass flat, about 25 percent piezo, pickups centered, volume at max). I never have anything turned all the way up except volume, and that's all the way up all the time.

 

[Big Poppa]

Alva
What happens is that we all come from a passive bass world and most when given huge amounts of EQ tend to want to "dime" it . Flat is your friend.sublte boosts and cuts really are effective.

 

[strummer]

I'm a big fan of flat, as you know Alva
Anyway, with the 4-band eq having 6 db slopes and all, the only real difference between your original eq and a "flat, roll off the lo-mid some" approach would really be headroom.

 

[timmy5strings]

Very good post. I used to dime it out too, but discovered there was no place to go but down. I started playing around with everything flat and building from there, and I soon discovered there were alot more tones available to choose from

 

[bassmonkey]

Great post, Alva.

I struggle at times to get the tone I want, but sometimes by accident get exactly what I am looking for. That is my fault, not the fault of the bass. Now I have the Bongos, I find it really difficult to switch to teh Stingray mid-set, as They are very different in terms of sound and respoinse to tweaks.

However, my ability with the tone controls is improving, thanks to posts like yours and guys like adouglas. For me this is a steep learning curve.

 

[Ole Man Blues]

Great postings guys...........

 

[tkarter]

I didn't discover exactly what I was looking for in eq on the bongo until BP said don't dime the volume.

Then the bongo made me smile.


tk

 

[Goofball Jones]

Now, it this mainly about the Bongo? Or do the other MM basses have this sensitive (in a good way) touch to their EQ. Meaning the Stingray and the Sterling. Or is it too dependent on the Bongo's 18v pre-amp?

Oh, and Alva, I've always liked your Youtube videos!

 

[tadawson]

Now, it this mainly about the Bongo? Or do the other MM basses have this sensitive (in a good way) touch to their EQ. Meaning the Stingray and the Sterling. Or is it too dependent on the Bongo's 18v pre-amp?

Oh, and Alva, I've always liked your Youtube videos!

Pretty much all active basses are like this - it's rarely a good idea to dime anything (well, maybe other than the volume) on an active instrument. On the EBMM stuff, start flat (on the detents) and work from there - no matter which instrument.

- Tim

 

[Alvabass]

Oh, and Alva, I've always liked your Youtube videos!

Thanks man, and thanks everybody for your comments. This thread is turning to be more interesting than I initially thought it would be.

 

[Strangeglow]

In my recording classes, I tell my students to use as little EQ as possible.

Full lows, full hi-mids and full highs. Lo-mids around 75%

Sounds like what you're really trying to do is cut the Lo-mids. Whenever I have to boost more than one frequency, I try to find a single frequency I can cut. And whenever possible, I try to cut. As you've discovered, it lets you use the volume knob to raise everything up.

Just my 2 cents. And a big +1 on your videos.

jw

 

[tkarter]

I agree with Tim. I still even on the SR5 have found that I can run more gain on the amp and leave the volume down and keep things in total sound control.

Being an old dog it did take me a bit to learn some new tricks.

What is fun for me is to have the band say man that bass is standing out turn down a bit. I show them the amp settings turn it down on the amp volume a bit and the sound is still there and they still keep hearing the bass which wasn't loud in the first place.

Alva your stuff is top notch all the way. The thing most interesting about this thread is a player like you revisited his methods.

IMHO

tk

 

[Bill]

It would be hard for me to switch back to a passive bass. Active electronics are just so easy & versatile. I've been playing my EBMM basses pretty much full-time for several years now, and I'm still messing around with EQ settings on the bass & on the amp as well. It's fun!

 

[sandman@midlife]

There's a lot of tones in my Bongo 5H. The only problem is me, I'm not Mr. Subtle, but I'm getting there.

Thanks to EBMM for such great instruments and to Lord Bongo for talking me into getting one.

 

[syciprider]

AB, your live tone is a monster. Keep your old settings for that purpose

 

[oddjob]

Great post... for me the fun is now getting my bass to sound great in different halls. Since I discovered BP's advice of starting flat, I have been able to nail tone for small rooms (and I mean nail it down - best bass sound ever). I am running into problems in med and large sized rooms where the sound has a tendency to "expand and contract" a bit more. Every now and then it hit it but more often than not it is just "acceptable." I realize that it is a product of my amp and the PA, but even on stage it doesn't "feel" right... anyone else in this boat???

 

[Big Poppa]

OK you can only worry about what you can control.. that is new age swill army knife advice but I believe that you have no control of front of house and acoustics....you can help but cant fix....On stage it has alot to do with monitor bleed and other players I always think that less is more in these situations. The less the on stage mix is the better....

 

[Disquieter]

Since I got my dargie delight a week or so ago, I've practiced only once (sad I know), and I found that the BEST tone out of the amps at the studio (not my amp...) was with the amp set flat, no eq on the amp, and the mids at 90%, bass at 75% and treble flat.

this was huge and punchy without losing clarity. before that I've always used a good deal of amp eq.


I'm going to record in about threeish weeks, and then I'll have some sound samples for you all to enjoy.

 

[Alz®]

As I rarely use amps (generally use DI direct to the front of house), I never fail to amaze bassists and non-bassists with the following tone settings.......(never told them this though! For forum eyes only!)

Low - 25-35% (can vary due to stage acoustics, string condition etc.)
Mid - 50% (never need to move the pot!)
High - 25-35% (can vary due to stage acoustics, string condition etc.)

Just ask the sound guy to crank up the foldback and hey presto.........creamy tone. One sound suits all (for me anyway......)