- Thread starter Big Poppa
- Start date
BigTony
Well-known member
Some great stuff here, I love to read about how the mind of a musician works, and how taking certain things about your playing serious, can really help enormously.
A huge amount of players, and that included me some time ago, take it all as fun, and sure it is, a huge amount of fun. But in order to get the most out of it, we need to sometimes take stock of our playing. Taking a look at where we are as players, and getting the most out of that, allows us to become more focussed.
To give an example, I am not the best guitarist. I can hold my own at times, but on the whole, when it comes to lead, I am Mr Pentatonic, and if the mood takes me, I may even use a little major and minor.
So, with that in mind, and the fact that Forum member Cherub, whom I gig with, happens to be a great all round guitarist, the lead is his, and as we get paid to entertain, I want the best for the audience and the fact he has some sweet chops, he plays the lead. That leaves me with rhythm.
rhythm used to be one of my pet hates, wow, rhythm guitar, how boringly normal! Well something happened. I realised that if I was gonna be playing rhythm guitar, I best be good at it. So, over the past year, I have been working, at each gig, to get my rhythm playing as tight and clean and as rhythmically focused as I can. It is something that, as a musician, I am proud to say that I have been working towards, and am now coming on in leaps and bounds. Not only that but I feel a lot more confident as a musician for putting that bit of effort in, and I am feeling the benefit of taking it a little more serious.
I suppose what I am trying to say, is that we are not all going to be the next SL or JP, but when we focus on what we can play, and move towards tightening that up, the focus as a whole helps our playing experience enormously.
A huge amount of players, and that included me some time ago, take it all as fun, and sure it is, a huge amount of fun. But in order to get the most out of it, we need to sometimes take stock of our playing. Taking a look at where we are as players, and getting the most out of that, allows us to become more focussed.
To give an example, I am not the best guitarist. I can hold my own at times, but on the whole, when it comes to lead, I am Mr Pentatonic, and if the mood takes me, I may even use a little major and minor.
So, with that in mind, and the fact that Forum member Cherub, whom I gig with, happens to be a great all round guitarist, the lead is his, and as we get paid to entertain, I want the best for the audience and the fact he has some sweet chops, he plays the lead. That leaves me with rhythm.
rhythm used to be one of my pet hates, wow, rhythm guitar, how boringly normal! Well something happened. I realised that if I was gonna be playing rhythm guitar, I best be good at it. So, over the past year, I have been working, at each gig, to get my rhythm playing as tight and clean and as rhythmically focused as I can. It is something that, as a musician, I am proud to say that I have been working towards, and am now coming on in leaps and bounds. Not only that but I feel a lot more confident as a musician for putting that bit of effort in, and I am feeling the benefit of taking it a little more serious.
I suppose what I am trying to say, is that we are not all going to be the next SL or JP, but when we focus on what we can play, and move towards tightening that up, the focus as a whole helps our playing experience enormously.
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Ok first off some of you need to re read the post I didnt ask your favorite solos....there are a zillion threads on that. I asked you analyze your favorite solos as a way to trying to figure what the player was saying.
Big Tony just hit the lottery. Albert lee is on eof the finest rhythm guitarists in his genre that has ever lived....it never gets mentioned but ask a producer or engineer. Same with Luke mind blowing rhythm...STeve morse is brilliant I know when i get to play with him he is next to me extremely percussive and way locked into the drummer
THe other thing you see all of the time in bars is two guitarists playing rhythm and both playing the open e or barred a..if Johnny is next to you pounding away at the open e find an inversion or play it in another position....
Just like soloing rhythm doesnt mean that you fill up every available spot. Look at lower freq's on the bandstand. How aobu the keyboard player that thinks he is playing a casual by himself playing his version of the bass line along with the the d tuned or 7 stringer playing just the low two strings and the drummer with double bass pedals all filling up the low end. that is always fun. That is why the bongo is so punchy but "clear it can coexist in those kind of enviornments.
Big Tony just hit the lottery. Albert lee is on eof the finest rhythm guitarists in his genre that has ever lived....it never gets mentioned but ask a producer or engineer. Same with Luke mind blowing rhythm...STeve morse is brilliant I know when i get to play with him he is next to me extremely percussive and way locked into the drummer
THe other thing you see all of the time in bars is two guitarists playing rhythm and both playing the open e or barred a..if Johnny is next to you pounding away at the open e find an inversion or play it in another position....
Just like soloing rhythm doesnt mean that you fill up every available spot. Look at lower freq's on the bandstand. How aobu the keyboard player that thinks he is playing a casual by himself playing his version of the bass line along with the the d tuned or 7 stringer playing just the low two strings and the drummer with double bass pedals all filling up the low end. that is always fun. That is why the bongo is so punchy but "clear it can coexist in those kind of enviornments.
Last edited:
TylerDowBryant
Well-known member
some of the simplest little nuances can add so much to the music...you don't always have to play straight rhythm...think of ways to compliment who is soloing...it is all about complimenting the music. Sometimes it's hard to do, but it can be done...I have seen it done so many times. It's easy to get carried away on stage...I know...Don't try to play everything you know in one song...Throw your flashy licks in the middle of a lot of taste and style...leave the audience wanting more. Sometimes it's more about what you leave out than what you put in...my two cents...good thread BP.
Last edited:
Very well put Tyler!
I think that goes for any of the arts. Not just music.
I cannot stand any music that has every possible thing jammed into it.
A little white space is very important.
Think of some of the old songs where there might be 2 tiny sounds in some space. It creates the total ambiance. Pink Floyd has mastered this and so have many others.
I think the hardest thing to do as an artists is to show restraint and not try and prove yourself.
Great thread BP. I'm pretty much a novice player and appreciate such things well articulated.
I think that goes for any of the arts. Not just music.
I cannot stand any music that has every possible thing jammed into it.
A little white space is very important.
Think of some of the old songs where there might be 2 tiny sounds in some space. It creates the total ambiance. Pink Floyd has mastered this and so have many others.
I think the hardest thing to do as an artists is to show restraint and not try and prove yourself.
Great thread BP. I'm pretty much a novice player and appreciate such things well articulated.
candid_x
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 3,272
This reminds me of a revelatory lesson I received one day back in 60-something. I was introduced to a guitar player who had just returned home from Viet Nam. Well, actually, he just returned from the Haight Ashbury scene, after arriving back in the states.
Up to this point I'd never played guitar with a band. This guy arranged for me to join in with him and a couple of his buddies on bass and drums. He asked if I knew the Grateful Dead tune, "good mornin' little school girl", and I didn't. He told me the chords, which were easy enough for my inexperienced hands to play. He counts off, and I'm chuckin' away at the chord progression, feeling all hip and professional and stuff, when he stops the band and just looks at me and says, "Playing rhythm isn't just playing chords. Rather than just strumming, try it like this", and he proceeded to play the rhythm part the way the Dead played it.
What an awakening that was for me! Light and tasty, playing music, not just hacking away at chords. That little lesson changed my entire approach to playing rhythm guitar. There's a lot to be said for less is more.
Last edited:
BigTony
Well-known member
Thanks BP, and what a great way to put it, I do feel I have hit the jackpot. I suppose it happened when I stopped needing to play guitar on every song, for every bar, I decided I wanted to take part in music, and my guitar became my tool to do that. As fogman says, its about Art, and the whole picture is the important bit.
Tyler makes some great points. Words like that from someone with such talent is like gold dust, thanks Tyler. Absolutely agree, when looking at rhythm, it certainly does not mean straight cord after chord, sometimes a little goes a long way. Sometimes when playing rhythm parts, I can be playing a simple melody line, or some nice swells, its all about what is right for the song. Rhythm to me is about trying to complement what is already there in the music, and very rarely about trying to create something else.
Deciding what to play where, is certainly something that develops over time, and it seems the more I practice listening, the less I feel the need to play, because what I do play, seems to count that much more. I watch the audience now, and when I see that smile from them because they are thinking, wow, that sounds awesome, thats where I get my kick now.
My greatest achievement so far, was when Cherub played Dire Straits 'Romeo & Juliette'. The piezo sounds incredible on his Luke, the way his eq sits, it sounds like a cross between a nylon and a steel. He suggested that I play some nice swells, but after listening to it, I decided not to play anything. Some nice harmonies on the vocal was all that was needed
Tyler makes some great points. Words like that from someone with such talent is like gold dust, thanks Tyler. Absolutely agree, when looking at rhythm, it certainly does not mean straight cord after chord, sometimes a little goes a long way. Sometimes when playing rhythm parts, I can be playing a simple melody line, or some nice swells, its all about what is right for the song. Rhythm to me is about trying to complement what is already there in the music, and very rarely about trying to create something else.
Deciding what to play where, is certainly something that develops over time, and it seems the more I practice listening, the less I feel the need to play, because what I do play, seems to count that much more. I watch the audience now, and when I see that smile from them because they are thinking, wow, that sounds awesome, thats where I get my kick now.
My greatest achievement so far, was when Cherub played Dire Straits 'Romeo & Juliette'. The piezo sounds incredible on his Luke, the way his eq sits, it sounds like a cross between a nylon and a steel. He suggested that I play some nice swells, but after listening to it, I decided not to play anything. Some nice harmonies on the vocal was all that was needed
KennethB
Well-known member
Lucious
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2005
- Messages
- 215
Great thread
Hey guys and gals,
Lots of wisdom here. I think Biffer nailed this. Every player is so vastly different, even in the same genre, that its hard to say whats right or wrong only if its wrong, everyone knows it. haha My vibe in a "jam" is always let the soloist play for awhile, lay OUT, and listen then maybe you can find a simple part to compliment. Especially when there are more than 2 guitar players! How many bad NAMM jams have we all heard or been a part of? hahaha Everyone playing as loud and as fast as they can. Surely that would be hell's muzak. hahaha
One of my fave jams has always been the Biff baby's jams with Steve Morse, Albert, me and Petrucci as well. Those guys KILL me and man, it takes some nuts to play at that level. Humbling really. Country Boy is a bitch. You could study that for years and never repeat yourself! You gotta practice before that one. hahaa But we all bring something VERY different to it. The fun thing about Biff babys also is when Rodney jumps up. Most of the time I have never heard the tunes before but yoiu LISTEN and then play something. In the end taste wins and all the guys have a great sense of music and follow the singer. You never know when the 4 chord is coming. haha
I could go on and on but I gotta go to the airport to Norway to start the Scandinavian festival run. 4 flights! Heelp! hahaha
I will check in and add to this very relevant thread. It may take me 3 f-ing days But I will be back. haha
Biff IS Biff babys!
Lots of love and respect guys.
Tyler, I am VERY proud of ya. Great job.
Lucious
Hey guys and gals,
Lots of wisdom here. I think Biffer nailed this. Every player is so vastly different, even in the same genre, that its hard to say whats right or wrong only if its wrong, everyone knows it. haha My vibe in a "jam" is always let the soloist play for awhile, lay OUT, and listen then maybe you can find a simple part to compliment. Especially when there are more than 2 guitar players! How many bad NAMM jams have we all heard or been a part of? hahaha Everyone playing as loud and as fast as they can. Surely that would be hell's muzak. hahaha
One of my fave jams has always been the Biff baby's jams with Steve Morse, Albert, me and Petrucci as well. Those guys KILL me and man, it takes some nuts to play at that level. Humbling really. Country Boy is a bitch. You could study that for years and never repeat yourself! You gotta practice before that one. hahaa But we all bring something VERY different to it. The fun thing about Biff babys also is when Rodney jumps up. Most of the time I have never heard the tunes before but yoiu LISTEN and then play something. In the end taste wins and all the guys have a great sense of music and follow the singer. You never know when the 4 chord is coming. haha
I could go on and on but I gotta go to the airport to Norway to start the Scandinavian festival run. 4 flights! Heelp! hahaha
I will check in and add to this very relevant thread. It may take me 3 f-ing days But I will be back. haha
Biff IS Biff babys!
Lots of love and respect guys.
Tyler, I am VERY proud of ya. Great job.
Lucious
threeminutesboy
Well-known member
be sure this love and respect is shared Lucious thanks for being such a great person and guitarist
kbaim
Well-known member
When listening to solos, I seem to prefer it when guitarists are SAYING something rather than SCREAMING something, if that makes any sense.
And I love it when players that are comping are a mix of percussive, use inversions, and keep it interesting with lots of upstrokes, and depending on how many people are jamming, maybe chords with fewer strings played (like 2 or 3).
And I love it when players that are comping are a mix of percussive, use inversions, and keep it interesting with lots of upstrokes, and depending on how many people are jamming, maybe chords with fewer strings played (like 2 or 3).
TylerDowBryant
Well-known member
haha...you ain't lying.
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Ill never forget that look on tylers face it looked lie he just discovered that he had sat on a box of milk duds.
How about the rhythm section and soloing. If is a rare band that comes out of a verse at 10 that brings it down to 5 to give the soloist a chance to build. How can a solo build if the drummer and bassist are like a runaway train.......THerer is nowhere to go trust me. next gig take your drummer aside and say tonight we are going to bring it down to start all solos and build with the soloist....Wow what a difference
Tylers band does this really well
How about the rhythm section and soloing. If is a rare band that comes out of a verse at 10 that brings it down to 5 to give the soloist a chance to build. How can a solo build if the drummer and bassist are like a runaway train.......THerer is nowhere to go trust me. next gig take your drummer aside and say tonight we are going to bring it down to start all solos and build with the soloist....Wow what a difference
Tylers band does this really well
TylerDowBryant
Well-known member
I was scared half to death! I remember looking at Casey and he looked almost as scared as me...haha...good times. Jamming with Albert Lee and Steve Lukather will keep you practicing. haha...
Thank's BP...good job band!
THE_EB_KID
Well-known member
Tyler congrats on playing at Crossroads, I'm so jealous!!
I just wish we'd have had a better guitar-slinger representing
South Louisiana than Tab Benoit, I've sat in with him before
and its a bit much at times, its all about bieng tastefull, which
he's not.
I just wish we'd have had a better guitar-slinger representing
South Louisiana than Tab Benoit, I've sat in with him before
and its a bit much at times, its all about bieng tastefull, which
he's not.
guitrr
Well-known member
Some great wisdom here about playing to the song and the vibe, rather than trying to impress everyone by blowing your wad in twenty seconds, or just chunking along, because you think it's boring not to be wailing as if you were Eric Johnson. I thought I might add a few things I've read, heard, or experienced along my own musical journey:
Most jazz players seldom play more than 3 strings at a time when they're comping. There's just no need; on top of a bass, drums, keys, etc, all you need is a little flavor. And if the keyboard player is playing in the midrange, a good guitar player will play above or below that, not wanting to muddy up the mix.
Keith Richards, undoubtedly a fine rock rhythm player, was asked in an interview how he keyed off of Bill Wyman (Stones bass player at that time), when he was playing rhythm. He replied, "I don't really listen too much to the bass, I try to always be locked in with Charlie's snare drum". To this day, that strikes me as very profound, and I've tried to always remember that when playing with a group.
There have been some great players cited here, and I like 'em all, but the main man for me when it comes to making a statement with a solo has always been Don Felder of the Eagles. I'm not a huge Eagles fan, but every time I'm privy to a conversation about players who know how to say something with a solo, I think of Felder. The guy is a complete master at constructing great solos. I bet almost all of you reading this can hum several of his solos note for note, but what's even more amazing is that most non-musicians can too! And how many guitar players could you say that about?
A couple of years ago in ToneQuest magazine, they conducted an interview with Aerosmith's guitar tech. I'm afraid I don't remember his name, but much of the interview had to do with Joe Perry's gear, and stage setup. The interviewer seemed like he was a real Joe Perry fan, so at one point, the tech said, "Let me tell you something, Brad Whitford allows Joe Perry to be Joe Perry. Without Brad, there would be no Joe." I believe what he was getting at was that while Perry is jumping around, running from one end of the stage to the other, ripping off hot licks, and generally being a rock star, Brad provides a solid musical anchor, by pretty much standing there and laying down a stable foundation. Perry doesn't have to worry about the cake, he can put on the icing.
Cool thread, thanks Poppa!
Kane
Most jazz players seldom play more than 3 strings at a time when they're comping. There's just no need; on top of a bass, drums, keys, etc, all you need is a little flavor. And if the keyboard player is playing in the midrange, a good guitar player will play above or below that, not wanting to muddy up the mix.
Keith Richards, undoubtedly a fine rock rhythm player, was asked in an interview how he keyed off of Bill Wyman (Stones bass player at that time), when he was playing rhythm. He replied, "I don't really listen too much to the bass, I try to always be locked in with Charlie's snare drum". To this day, that strikes me as very profound, and I've tried to always remember that when playing with a group.
There have been some great players cited here, and I like 'em all, but the main man for me when it comes to making a statement with a solo has always been Don Felder of the Eagles. I'm not a huge Eagles fan, but every time I'm privy to a conversation about players who know how to say something with a solo, I think of Felder. The guy is a complete master at constructing great solos. I bet almost all of you reading this can hum several of his solos note for note, but what's even more amazing is that most non-musicians can too! And how many guitar players could you say that about?
A couple of years ago in ToneQuest magazine, they conducted an interview with Aerosmith's guitar tech. I'm afraid I don't remember his name, but much of the interview had to do with Joe Perry's gear, and stage setup. The interviewer seemed like he was a real Joe Perry fan, so at one point, the tech said, "Let me tell you something, Brad Whitford allows Joe Perry to be Joe Perry. Without Brad, there would be no Joe." I believe what he was getting at was that while Perry is jumping around, running from one end of the stage to the other, ripping off hot licks, and generally being a rock star, Brad provides a solid musical anchor, by pretty much standing there and laying down a stable foundation. Perry doesn't have to worry about the cake, he can put on the icing.
Cool thread, thanks Poppa!
Kane
jazzbo jim
Well-known member
+1...it's about dynamics and sensitivity. Listen to Lyle Mays' solo on San Lorenzo (The Pat Metheny Group's first album) You will weep. Starts at nothing and goes through the roof and then back to nothing. Amazing. And drummer Danny Gottlieb makes the impact all the stronger by his sensitive use of dynamics.
There's nowhere to go from"10" (unless you're Nigel T)
Great thread - wish I had of read it sooner. Seems I have been fighting a few monkeys in the back of my head and maybe a mansion that's been buildling on my back
Time for me to stop over-thinking and start enjoying music again
thanks BP (and everyone else) for taking the time to share your thoughts
Time for me to stop over-thinking and start enjoying music again
thanks BP (and everyone else) for taking the time to share your thoughts
