'81 StingRay questions

[Sabu]

Hi all

I've been a StingRay owner for 2 years now, and I'm pretty happy to be able to play a classic bass from 1981. However, in the 2 years I've owned it, I've never been able to get the bass to "sit in the mix" properly. The bass sounds fine on its own, but throw in some drums and guitars and the bass gets lost. It's still there, of course, and sometimes can be quite "huge", but there's little definition. I don't think the problem is volume but rather frequencies...since the earlier 'Rays don't have mid control, the sound is somewhat "scooped", which sounds fine solo but doesn't always work in a band situation. Please LMK if I'm way off base here My amps are a Yorkville XM200T (200W solid state 2x10 w/1x15 extension cab) and an Eden Nemesis 2x10 (forget the model ATM but it's 250W solid state) for smaller gigs. I've seriously been thinking of selling the bass lately, but a part of me doesn't want to let go of a classic, especially if there's a certain range of frequencies I can boost on the amp to cut through. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

 

[Caca de Kick]

I think you have an eq'ing issue with how you're working your amp.
I also have an '81 Ray, among other 2 band eq MM basses. I have no problems cutting through with clarity.

 

[Slapfest]

I had a similar experience years ago, but I had 2 pre-eb stingrays at the time, and although they both sounded great on their own, one had significantly greater "cut" at volume. Later I found out that the one that wasnt cutting, had a slightly different preamp design, being an '82. The better sounding unit was a '76, I later discovered. But I had something to compare them to.... so I noticed the difference even more.
They can really be "all boom and top end'"at high volumes at times, so maybe thats somewhere you could look at. You've probably tried this, but you can get a lot more "cut" with a little less boom and hiss. Back the bass off a bit, and maybe even the tops as well (depending apon how old your strings are etc)....It will still sound great...but just a little more compact The sound will always vary from room to room, but you'll probably find that you will get pretty good at adjusting to it
Another thing to try, is to turn up your volume a bit, and soften your attack on the strings just a little. This can (with a little practice), give you a lot more headroom, and you can always "dig in" if you want to be a little louder at times. I found that it was great for my technique, and I felt more in control of the dynamics.
If, as some are saying, its your amp..... I always found that stingrays and old valve amps just love each other. All the harshness is gone, and there are solid technical harmonic reasons as to why valves are sweeter sounding. At one stage I had an Edenworld traveller(I think), and the 4 x 10xlt cabs, and it sounded very "hi fi" at low levels, but really harsh at high volumes.
But (having just re-read my reply), I'm not really saying that you should change your sound, your style and your amp.........they're just some things to think about

 

[Slapfest]

Sabu,
I've just had a quick listen to your 4 tracks at that site.
And now I'm not sure what to say.
Each track has such a different bass sound from the next.
I would never have guessed that the first 3 tracks were 'rays!
Then the last track has a straight, clean pre-ernie sound.
Sounded pretty good,I thought.
Anyone that cans you for pulling a sound like that, doesnt really know.
You obviously are after a wide array of sounds, and while 'rays are quite versatile,
your sound on track 4 is the type of sound the empire was built on, and is a sound completely unique to stingrays. Others have tried to emulate it, but basically, thats where its at, for Stingrays.
If I were you, I would stick with that sound, and subtly tweak it to suit the rooms your playing in.
I think that you can get some great variation in the tone by playing a bit closer to the bridge, or closer to the neck. Or you could develope a muted technique,a la Rocco, or Marcus Miller.
Thats not easy,and takes time, but then the sound is in your hands, not in your eq or amp.
But I honestly dont think theres anything wrong with your bass. Not a thing.
I have used a similar sound to your track 4 for around 25 years, and not once has anyone ever said anything about my sound that wasnt favourable.
But I got my ray 'cos I had lusted after that tone for too long.
Once I got one, I was at home, and the search was over.

 

[Musicman Nut]

Hi all

I've been a StingRay owner for 2 years now, and I'm pretty happy to be able to play a classic bass from 1981. However, in the 2 years I've owned it, I've never been able to get the bass to "sit in the mix" properly. The bass sounds fine on its own, but throw in some drums and guitars and the bass gets lost. It's still there, of course, and sometimes can be quite "huge", but there's little definition. I don't think the problem is volume but rather frequencies...since the earlier 'Rays don't have mid control, the sound is somewhat "scooped", which sounds fine solo but doesn't always work in a band situation. Please LMK if I'm way off base here My amps are a Yorkville XM200T (200W solid state 2x10 w/1x15 extension cab) and an Eden Nemesis 2x10 (forget the model ATM but it's 250W solid state) for smaller gigs. I've seriously been thinking of selling the bass lately, but a part of me doesn't want to let go of a classic, especially if there's a certain range of frequencies I can boost on the amp to cut through. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

YOU NEED an Ernie Ball 3 Band Stingray and I hate to say this but it'll eat your 77's 81's for Lunch, I love a 2 band and own a ton of them BUT, I find the 3 bands just cut like a knife in the mix, you'll love it.DJ

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Try setting the the bass and treble controls on your instrument to mid point. Adjust your power amp and then adjust your instrument.

 

[Sabu]

Thank you everyone for your replies!!

Sabu,
I've just had a quick listen to your 4 tracks at that site.
And now I'm not sure what to say.
Each track has such a different bass sound from the next.
I would never have guessed that the first 3 tracks were 'rays!
Then the last track has a straight, clean pre-ernie sound.
Sounded pretty good,I thought.
Anyone that cans you for pulling a sound like that, doesnt really know.
You obviously are after a wide array of sounds, and while 'rays are quite versatile,
your sound on track 4 is the type of sound the empire was built on, and is a sound completely unique to stingrays. Others have tried to emulate it, but basically, thats where its at, for Stingrays.
If I were you, I would stick with that sound, and subtly tweak it to suit the rooms your playing in.
I think that you can get some great variation in the tone by playing a bit closer to the bridge, or closer to the neck. Or you could develope a muted technique,a la Rocco, or Marcus Miller.
Thats not easy,and takes time, but then the sound is in your hands, not in your eq or amp.
But I honestly dont think theres anything wrong with your bass. Not a thing.
I have used a similar sound to your track 4 for around 25 years, and not once has anyone ever said anything about my sound that wasnt favourable.
But I got my ray 'cos I had lusted after that tone for too long.
Once I got one, I was at home, and the search was over.

Excellent ears, Slapfest! Track 4 is my 'Ray, straight into my PC. Track 2 is the 'Ray but through a mixing board-to-PC and whatever plugins I was using at the time (probably just EQ); same thing for the slap outro on Track 3. Not sure I can say what the other basses used were, so I won't I actually really like the unaffected sound on Track 4 and also hearing the bass through headphones (unaffected except by mixer)...but there's no way to fully hear the details of the tone when playing with a drummer and a guitarist or two in a live situation, IMHO. I should probably go into more detail regarding how I practise in a band situation: I've found myself getting paranoid and/or responsible regarding my hearing over the last few years, so 99.99% of the time I wear earplugs. This eliminates the annoying sounds from cymbals and distorted guitar, but unfortunately also a lot of the "life" from the bass. I'm using "musician earplugs" which apparantly allow proper levels of bass and treble through, but I find they still mud up the sound. They aren't the super-expensive deluxe kind you get molded to your ear, but they're still (supposedly) better than the standard $3 pharmacy ones. Anyway, when I (very rarely) practise without the plugs, my bass ('Ray and others) is usually quite slammin'. I often notice this at gigs, where I don't wear plugs when I'm playing (although when listening to other bands, they go right back in )

Hmm...I think, as I type this, I might have realized I should probably drop the $$$ for some of those hi-tech earplugs and hold on to my old-school StingRay...

Thanks again everyone, for replying!

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Just listened to the tracks. All are different but sound fine to me. And track 4...nothing wrong with that!

 

[Sabu]

Lj

currently watching/listening to some clips of Louis Johnson on youtube. I guess I will not sell my '81 after all Also checked the pickup height after reading the FAQ and mine was a couple mm too low. Although I must say less than 5mm space between pickup and string seems really close (but then, I am no expert). I'll try out some slap after some more marvelling at Louis.

 

[Caca de Kick]

Hmm...I think, as I type this, I might have realized I should probably drop the $$$ for some of those hi-tech earplugs and hold on to my old-school StingRay...

Ah ha! so earplugs were in play.

Yup. There's nothing wrong with your 2eq Ray.

 

[Sabu]

Ah ha! so earplugs were in play.

Yup. There's nothing wrong with your 2eq Ray.

I agree. After watching numerous Louis Johnson and Bernard Edwards clips, I can now say with confidence that my MM sounds exactly like a StingRay from that era should Thanks again for your help, everyone!