Ok, I had a little tone shoot out between the Super sport and the Axis .....

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

....and these Supersport pickups aren't anywhere close to the Axis tone ..... really thin in comparison.

I checked the pick up height and it's about the same. Strings are the same. I understand the bridge being totally different is going to have some effect, but wow ...the Axis is beefy, defined and in your face, while the SS is actually pretty blurred and muddy sounding. The single coil modes are good however.

Is there a typical pup upgrade for these ?

 

[TonyEVH5150]

It's the same pickups too. . . . . .

 

[JeffreyB]

I have 2 super sports and 2 axis floyds....they sound very similar....in fact, one of my super sports (trem version) sounds the biggest and baddest of all of em.
tone is subjective, of course...

 

[Sub1 Zero]

Strange stuff... Did you have different strings on them?

 

[Dizzy]

I've got an ASS, and EVH, and compared both with my old Axis.

The ASS rocks, plenty of grunt, and has never sounded thin.

Only minor differences when compared to the Exis & EVH, but great added versatility with the 5-way.

 

[beej]

Same guitar, same pickups. People say the Floyd makes the difference, but I'm guessing it's the extra tone control on the SSpt that people react to.

On the Axis you have the single pot- 500k. On the SSpt you have volume and tone, combined load of 250k. So the Axis should sound brighter due to this.

If this really bothers you, try disconnecting the tone control and see how you like it. If you like the sound but need a tone control, you could try 1 Meg pots in both (500k total, like the Axis).

 

[headcrash]

... who needs tone pots anyway?
Actually the tone pot's load is "coupled" capacitance-wise. When you leave the tone pot open, you only have the load of a series circuit of the tone cap plus 500kOhms together in parallel to the volume pot. So the 250kOhms load is true for higher frequencies.
Sinca I am too lazy to calculate all this, I usually disconnect my tone pots

 

[Dante]

im almost 100% that 250k pots only get used with single coils and sometimes emgs...

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

That's really weird !! .... same exact pickups huh?

I guess what I can do for starters is to change strings on both guitars to make sure that is evened up. Make sure the pickup height is exactly the same. I'll have to look into that tone pot and maybe disconnect it if all else fails. The Axis was noticably louder..... I wonder if there is a variation in pickups resistance wise?

Even if the pups were identical, I suppose variations in wood and the bridge could be the difference.

I'll tweek a bit and report back later

 

[Tone?]

Floyds sound very different than vintage trems and act different. Floyds have a large mass on the top where the saddles are locked down. Vintage ones dont. Bent steel saddles are totally different sounding than Solid ones. which does yours have??

Floyds usually have a large warm sound but many feel they 'lack' some dynamics that vintage bridges give. Vintage bridges have more sparkle people feel.

i dont know. Wood is different on ever guitar. But i wouldnt think that different on these guitars.

 

[Jimmyb]

Exactly the same pickups as has always been used. The only difference (as far as I'm aware of) is that on the ASS you get the coil split options.

I've never noticed any 'thinness' with my HH Sport and Super Sport.

 

[beej]

As headcrash mentioned, there is more to it than just simple resistance (the impedance is less for higher frequencies than for low ones). The long and short of it is that when your tone control is off you are loading the pickups and that effect makes everything less bright.

So just unsolder that tone pot and see if you like it- it'll brighten things up.

im almost 100% that 250k pots only get used with single coils and sometimes emgs...

Actives usually use 25k pots. You can use 250k pots on singles or buckers, just depends what you like. The larger the pot value, the more the pickups will be "brightened".

Floyds sound very different than vintage trems and act different. Floyds have a large mass on the top where the saddles are locked down. Vintage ones dont. Bent steel saddles are totally different sounding than Solid ones. which does yours have??

The Super Sports have the solid saddles, and I'm sure there's a difference between bridges.

But if you find the Super Sport dark, I'm still betting you'll like it once you remove the tone pot.

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

If you remove the 5 way and put in a 3 way, and remove the Tone pots it will sound as fat as lard! I have done this on my ASS and it sounds way better than it did originally!

 

[beej]

Not sure I see how putting in a three way switch makes a tonal difference ... other than losing sounds?

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

Not sure I see how putting in a three way switch makes a tonal difference ... other than losing sounds?

There is a lot of extra wiring going on in there. I removed mine because I did not like the split coil sounds, and I kept knocking the switch by accident. I am sure the extra wiring must have some impact on the sound. But I will say, the tone knob being removed makes the most difference.

 

[uvacom]

There is a lot of extra wiring going on in there. I removed mine because I did not like the split coil sounds, and I kept knocking the switch by accident. I am sure the extra wiring must have some impact on the sound. But I will say, the tone knob being removed makes the most difference.

Nope - there is more wiring in there, but there isn't really any more wiring in the signal path at any one time, so it really doesn't matter that more is connected to the switch when it isn't doing anything.

As far as using one meg pots like beej suggested - I was a bit skeptical so I tested this in PSPICE (using a pickup model described here and adjusted for appropriate EBMM Axis parameters, approximated 6 henries, 15k DCR, and 80pf capacitance for the pickup, may be off a little but it doesn't matter too much), and at least with the Axis's pickups it will work well. It's not electrically equivalent but for this circuit it doesn't make a difference whether 1Meg pots or a 500k pot and no tone circuit are used.

Here's the plot so you can see the difference, this should help people visualize the tonal difference between the Axis and the ASS:

It is significant enough that I would imagine most people could hear it, the Axis will probably have a more cutting sound due to the more pronounced resonant peak, and the ASS will be more balanced.

Anyway, to summarize - I agree that adding one meg pots will make an Axis sound more like an ASS - at least with the volume & tone on 10.

 

[beej]

Wow, nice work man- plotting that graph is a great way to drive the point home!

 

[Astrofreq]

..... really thin in comparison.

Are you using a Line 6 amp?

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Floyds sound very different than vintage trems and act different. Floyds have a large mass on the top where the saddles are locked down. Vintage ones dont. Bent steel saddles are totally different sounding than Solid ones. which does yours have??

Floyds usually have a large warm sound but many feel they 'lack' some dynamics that vintage bridges give. Vintage bridges have more sparkle people feel.

i dont know. Wood is different on ever guitar. But i wouldnt think that different on these guitars.

Mine is actually the fixed bridge.

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Are you using a Line 6 amp?

Nah, Marshall superlead metalpanel