Tuning stability with my JP... What have I done?!

[MusicManJP6]

I have been using EB hybrids for a long time on my standard JP. Last week I switched to DR tite fit 10s and adjusted the neck and bridge to compensate. A day or two later I decided to check the intonation to troubleshoot some strange sitar type buzz in the lower frets (on the B string mostly). Found the intonation to be WAY out (and rightly so since i'd never even checked it since buying it new in Feb of '06). So, I get the intonation set, tweak the truss rod a little and it plays like a dream! Put it back in it's case and get it out to play the next night. Play and find it buzzing like crazy in the lower frets but this time on open strings too on the A and D strings. So, I tweaked the truss rod again, but action is too high (to get rid of the buzz) so I mess with the saddles (not the first time i've done this) to better match the radius of the neck (i think it's pretty darn close now), and even adjusted the bridge height down a little. I got the action closer with very little buzz, but now the real problem (that is about to drive me nuts)..... the little booger won't stay in tune! I can just play (not even bend or use the trem) and i have to continuously tune the guitar. I did this for about 15 minutes before getting fed up and hungry and returning it to the case.

I've been astounded at the tuning stability of my JP up until last night. Usually I can leave it in the case for a week or more and it will still be in tune when I pull it out! This is unlike my guitar to have this issue, so now i'm wondering what on earth could have happened. Keep in mind that i had to move my saddles back several millimeters to get it to intonate correctly (like i said, it's been a while and i've NEVER intonated it).

Any ideas before i ship it to EB for a complete setup from scratch (or throw it out the window - lol)? Does it just need time to 'settle' into the new setup or something?

-Adam

 

[Nik_Left_RG]

First Off, I am not a JP user.. yet.. Here are some things i noticed in your post

1. You changed ur strings from your regular set
2. Tweaked the truss rod,etc to accomodate the change.
3. You checked intonation after about 2 years ??

Anyway, I am sure you'd have had enough experience with floating bridges. But here are my few thoughts -

1. I would have tuned the new strings perfectly first (stretching it to all possible limits so that they wont budge when they are locked down). This includes intonating it as well

2. Check the action and the bridge thereafter. Make minor adjustments. A quarter turn per spring is suggested at this time to avoid mishaps.

3. Fret buzz ? Unlock the strings, make quarter turns on the truss rod, tuning it up and checking the action each time.

P.S. You have to be very careful when playing around with the truss rod. Too much will end up warping your fretboard.. Ok.. thats a worse case scenario but just so you know.

I would suggest now that you take it to a local tech if you are not comfortable with doing it by yourself (I assume this is not the case since you have been pretty much doing it).

 

[Nik_Left_RG]

And by the way, 15 mins is definitely not long enough to tune a floating bridge.. Atleast for me,when I get new strings,I stretch it and usually tune it as close as possible and play a few licks over all the strings for about 5 mins and re-tune it. after doing this for about 2-3 times, i lock it down and adjust the fine-tuners from then on. Usually after this i dont have much tuning issues.

 

[TNT]

It's really no big deal, the guitar is fine!!! It simply needs to be set up correctly. Just a matter of one, two, three. So, if you're not able to do it, you have no choice but to get someone else to do it.

But, before you "ship it anywhere", (not to say customer service couldn't do this for you) just check around your area where you live and see if there's a qualified guitar player who can do this for you, because you really don't need a tech, unless you've never did this before.

Where I live and play there are literally countless "competent" guitar players who can do many guitar related things, that aren't even considered "techs".

Either way, you'll be up and runnin' again.

 

[MusicManJP6]

Basically, after restringing with the 10s I leveled the bridge and had to tighten the truss a little to bring the action down a hair from the added string tension. I've not turned it more than a 1/4 turn in either direction. I am checking the neck straightness before adjusting. It has always seemed like a balancing act between saddle height, neck straightness, and bridge height...

I just picked it up and played it unplugged and while the A and D strings still buzz when fretted it seems to be OK otherwise. The buzz is not immediate either. It takes half a second for the buzz to start and seems to be coming from somewhere up the neck. The fret level was checked not too long ago so I don't suspect that to be the cause.

I'll play with it some more later and see if the tuning goes to **** when I mess with the tremolo - if so i'll do as suggested and keep moving it up and down and tuning, etc.

I basically just wanted to make sure I hadn't done something wrong without knowing since i've never intonated my guitar before... Sounds like i'm OK though.

 

[Nik_Left_RG]

Hope it all turns out Ok..

 

[petruccirocks02]

And by the way, 15 mins is definitely not long enough to tune a floating bridge.. Atleast for me,when I get new strings,I stretch it and usually tune it as close as possible and play a few licks over all the strings for about 5 mins and re-tune it. after doing this for about 2-3 times, i lock it down and adjust the fine-tuners from then on. Usually after this i dont have much tuning issues.

Yeah, but thats different. You don't have to lock anything down on the JP bridge since its not a double locking trem and it doesn't have fine tuners.

Adam, I think the reason its not staying in tune is because when you switched to those strings, it took the whole set up out of whack. Take it to a tech and I'm sure she'll be good as new.

-Phil

 

[Nik_Left_RG]

As i said, i dont have a JP yet.. But thats about to change..

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

I have been using EB hybrids for a long time on my standard JP. Last week I switched to DR tite fit 10s


...


-Adam

That's your problem right there!


Seriously, though - something has to be out of whack. Take it to your local tech or send it to EB and get it back to factory fresh.

 

[candid_x]

Adam, seriously, I've heard a lot of quirky stuff with DR's. Mainly consistency issues. I'd try another brand, or go back to the Hybrids and see what happens.

 

[MusicManJP6]

Thanks, fellas... I played it tonight and all seems to be well! I guess the change in gauge and all the adjustments I made had to sit over night and settle in. I was able to dive bomb, flutter, space ship launch (lol), whatever the trem and it stayed in tune! There is still a little buzz but it is not audible through the amp. I suppose I get carried away trying to aleviate any buzz whatsoever and for the action height I prefer it just isn't possible. In reality, it is a feat to have the action as low as I do and not have more buzz than I do! Anyway, I think I was just freaking out because i'm down to one JP again and I want it to be perfect.

Thanks for the help!

 

[petruccirocks02]

Thanks, fellas... I played it tonight and all seems to be well! I guess the change in gauge and all the adjustments I made had to sit over night and settle in. I was able to dive bomb, flutter, space ship launch (lol), whatever the trem and it stayed in tune! There is still a little buzz but it is not audible through the amp. I suppose I get carried away trying to aleviate any buzz whatsoever and for the action height I prefer it just isn't possible. In reality, it is a feat to have the action as low as I do and not have more buzz than I do! Anyway, I think I was just freaking out because i'm down to one JP again and I want it to be perfect.

Thanks for the help!

Adam, if you don't like buzz, you'd hate to play my JP. Haha. I like my action ridiculously low, like below 2mm. Haha.

-Phil

 

[Nik_Left_RG]

I wish i could get mine to about 1 mm.. Govan has his at 1mm on the 24th.. i bet it would be buzzing a bit but damn,, would be really nifty

 

[Phazer]

do you guys actually lower your action using the truss rod or do you lower the bridge screws?
I'm asking because I asked a tech and said that using the truss rod to adjust action height isn't a good idea since action lowering is only a conseguence of adjusting the truss rod, but the correct way is lowering the bridge screws (at least that's what he said)

 

[Jimmyb]

I've never used the bridge screws to adjust the height on any of my EBMM's.

It's the EB recommended way of doing it, so I think I trust them to know how it should be done.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I start with the truss rod, but if too much buzz is introduced from the neck being too straight then I mess with the bridge height and lastly the saddles...

I don't mind buzz as long as I can't hear it through the amp. but, I get carried away with trying to eliminate the buzz when changing strings and playing unplugged though...

Needless to say, my guitar plays much better now that i've gone through it with a fine toothed comb!! I can't believe how bad the intonation was off. That's what I get for not checking it for almost three years!

 

[agt]

If I change string gauges or even just initially when I acquire a new EBMM guitar (is there any other brand???), I adjust the saddles initially in conjunction with the truss rod so that I have proper relief (just about none is my preference) and the action is at 4/64" (top of 12th fret to bottom of 6th string) with no buzzing. The rest of the string heights follow accordingly with slightly less than 4/64" by the the time I get to the 1st string. This is my baseline spec. Your numbers may vary according to your preferences and playing style. I also set the intonation with a Peterson Strobe tuner.

After that, I never touch the saddles and just use very small tweaks of the truss rod to account for normal humidity changes etc. I probably tweak my truss rod every week or two, but just a very tiny amount right or left so that on average, it is where I set it initially. The point is to use the truss rod tweaks to bring it back to baseline spec.

I highly recommend buying two tools from Stewart McDonald: their their metal "Understring Radius Gauges" and especially their "String Action Gauge". The former allows you to set the saddles to the radius of the fretboard and the latter allows you to check the action at the 12th fret. The kit comes with gauges that suit the ASS/SS/AL/Silo (10"), Morse (12") and JP (15") plus a few others.

The reason the "String Action Gauge" is important is to keep you objective. I think we've all experienced the subjective impression that the action might have drifted up or down or that buzzes have appeared that were not there previously. Break out that gauge and check! If it has changed, a tiny (I emphasize tiny) tweak of the truss rod is all it takes to bring t back to the baseline spec with no guesswork.

There is so much to love about EBMM instruments, but the exposed truss rod adjustment wheel is truly genius.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I measured string height at the 12th fret for all strings and they are all right at 1/32"! I did a pretty good job adjusting the saddles to match the bridge height! I checked the intonation again now that the action is where I want it and found a few strings to be a little off. It's right as rain now! Still buzzes a little, but I can deal with it coz it plays like butter...

 

[Big Poppa]

it better buzz at 1/32

 

[Psychicpet]

it better buzz at 1/32

absolutely!