Sub 1 Pickup Change (JP6/SM-Y2D/AL owner opinions?)

[Sticky1973]

Hello people.

As I piece together my Sub 1 masterplan bit by bit, I have a pickup question for those of you willing to chip in with info.

I am about to pull the trigger on a D Sonic & Air Norton combo; an established filthy pair that should allow my little gem to really sing.

Wild question, but with the right clean settings, do you reckon that some authentic Lee/Paisley/Burton country-like tones could still be dialled in?

Would a dedicated single coil adjacent to the HB in the bridge (SM-Y2D layout) be a better option? I'd rather avoid the addition of another coil if I can.

Thow me some opinions.

Many thanks!

 

[beej]

It's tough to nail tele tones in that kind of config. You could totally put a single coil in there, like the Morse/Y2D. I'd think maybe something with a baseplate- if you can get your hands on the AL brige p'up it's pretty decent.

That said, the single is too far from the bridge to really nail the tele tones. (Having tried *many* pickups in the Morse, that position has it's own sound.) So other option is get a good splitable bridge p'up. I don't have much experience with the D Sonic, but I can tell you that the Morse bridge p'up (available from Dimarzio) sounds great split- very twangy. It's a great p'up.

Interested to know how you make out- let us know.

 

[73h Nils]

I have the D Sonic, Air Norton combo in my OLP JP, and those sorts of cleans...eh, I don't think you'd achieve them. The D Sonic is really full-bodied sounding and uber-warm. That's with the two being split with inside coils. Maybe if you did what beej said, that might get you there. Also, try looking at PAF Pros or something a little less output.

 

[Sticky1973]

Thanks beej and 73h Nils, that's totally the sort of info I was seeking, glad I have asked the question now

Now you've got me thinking. I wonder if moving a D Sonic forward a "coil width amount", and slinging an AL type bridge pickup nearer the bridge could be an option?

My main reason for the D Sonic was for fierce palmed muted rhythm tones, rather than for screaming solo runs; my fingers just don't work as fast as the average bear. Thus, I wonder if a DiMarzio DP200F in the bridge by itself would cover both a real aggressive tone, and split for tele tones (and the Sub 1 is a poplar body)?

You guys are spot on, though. It's that snappy/spanky tele sound i'd be looking for, as an option in amongst some aggressive tones.

Thoughts?

 

[candid_x]

Trying to recall who it is that put a Tele bridge on Silo...

 

[banjoplayer]

Trying to recall who it is that put a Tele bridge on Silo...

Marantz. the thread is here http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/35449-tele-silhouette.html

 

[beej]

I wonder if moving a D Sonic forward a "coil width amount", and slinging an AL type bridge pickup nearer the bridge could be an option?

I've often wondered the same thing. But I think the single would be too close to the bridge to be effective. (Love to have a setup where I could slide the p'up along to see where it sounded best. On my to-do list.) Part of the magic you're looking for is the distance from bridge to single.

Really, I don't think there's a perfect answer here. My thoughts are that you have three options:

- Go the Morse route and get a single that's in the ballpark,
- Get a bridge p'up that sounds good in split or parallel mode,
- Get a really good noiseless single coil and optimize for clean sounds. Then wire in a small cap to make it more middy when you use it with gain (you can wire it up to a switch). I've got Bill Lawrence 200s and 280s, they can get pretty damn heavy and are quieter than most of my HBs. With a bit of EQ (or a capacitor), you are off to the races.

 

[Slingy]

My opinion is to hot rod the Sub into a metal machine, and pick up a cheap Tele for the Tele stuff.

 

[Sticky1973]

Loads of great ideas, folks. Many thanks.

What a restless night though. I rebuilt the Sub in my head as I tried to sleep last night, with the DP200F Morse bridge pickup in there with the Air Norton at first, then going as far as pairing it up with the DP205 Morse neck pickup instead of the original D Sonic/Norton combo

I could almost justify sourcing another Sub 1 alone for that very config right now!

That said, I now wonder if I am taking my last minute desire for the axe to cover good country tones too far. I may be diluting the potential for what Slingy has just referred to as a "metal machine"

Watching the SM-Y2D on YouTube footage, there is some serious tone to those pickups, but with me as the limitation I wonder if I am flexible enough to exploit the nuances of the Morse pickups, if that makes sense?

I tend to crank it or clean it. I tend not to have a middle ground.

Hell, this is harder than I thought!

 

[73h Nils]

Well, you could always just TRY the different Dimarzios out. They have a return policy for this kind of thing. That way, you might even find something you didn't really consider.

 

[Sticky1973]

Interested to know how you make out- let us know.

Hi team.

Well, yesterday was quite a day for me.

I finally traded in some gear, dug out the cash and ordered some goodies:

1 x DiMarzio D Sonic (DP207F)
1 x DiMarzio Air Norton (DP193)
1 x DiMarzio Area '61 (DP416)

They should be with my local dealer within a week or so, and then he'll get crackin' on the pick guard.

This thing has been in my head for years, it's about time it was built!

For the moment i've named it "Project Motrucci".

Now, Graph Tech Ghost or Fishman.....................

Actually, Beej, i've been trawling the threads on this, and you have commented that you would perhaps choose Fishman rather than Graph Tech if you were to do it again. Does this still hold true?

I'm interested in any comments fella, I have noticed that you have rightly tamperfered with many a project, so I hope you don't mind me tapping into some of your ideas

 

[tommyindelaware]

i'm w/ beej. the morse bridge split sounds excellent. it's still 6k even when split.......w/the plate underneath......& it's a ceramic magnet.. i been using it ALOT for years.

It's tough to nail tele tones in that kind of config. You could totally put a single coil in there, like the Morse/Y2D. I'd think maybe something with a baseplate- if you can get your hands on the AL brige p'up it's pretty decent.

That said, the single is too far from the bridge to really nail the tele tones. (Having tried *many* pickups in the Morse, that position has it's own sound.) So other option is get a good splitable bridge p'up. I don't have much experience with the D Sonic, but I can tell you that the Morse bridge p'up (available from Dimarzio) sounds great split- very twangy. It's a great p'up.

Interested to know how you make out- let us know.

 

[Sticky1973]

i'm w/ beej. the morse bridge split sounds excellent .... i been using it ALOT for years.

Thanks fella.

I so very nearly went with the DP200 Morse Bridge, but I am really looking forward to having that D Sonic growl. Added to the aesthetic appeal of the Y2D Bridge HB/SC layout, I am hoping the Area '61 really grabs some spank shoved up nearer the bridge.

I am trying to keep this project fairly unique, but all the while remain true to the original EBMM themes that have influenced this Sub mod.

 

[Sub1 Zero]

Marantz. the thread is here http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/35449-tele-silhouette.html

This is actually kinda cool.

Have you considered Seymour Duncan P-Rails?

 

[zombi]

My opinion is to hot rod the Sub into a metal machine, and pick up a cheap Tele for the Tele stuff.

I think he meant to say make the sub a metal machine, and pickup an AL...

 

[Sticky1973]

I hear ye!

It has been on my mind for some months just how to capture a great single coil tone with this mini-project.

Hopefully the Area '61 will fit the bill when fitted.

Can't wait to have it all assembled.

 

[beej]

Actually, Beej, i've been trawling the threads on this, and you have commented that you would perhaps choose Fishman rather than Graph Tech if you were to do it again. Does this still hold true?

There are some good ones on the market, pros and cons to each. I think at the time I was thinking the Fishman would have been easier, but I can't recall why now.

It all depends how you want to configure the piezo. I love the sound of the graph-tech, but found the preamp a tad noisy. Had to wire the on/off switch to fully take it out of the circuit, it's an active/passive switch now. That was a bit of a pain. Also, with the tuneomatic version of the bridge it's hard to ground it, also a hassle to find a workaround. But I like the sound and options they've got on the preamp.

 

[Sticky1973]

.... it's an active/passive switch now..... I like the sound and options they've got on the preamp.

I notice in the Graph Tech installation manual that it is possible to install the system without the pre-amp, by taking the output to a 5M Ohm volume, and on to the ring of a TRS jack socket. Any comment on how it sounds passive? Do you reckon the pre-amp is worth going for anyway?

My local tech did advise that one of his customers complained of a little low frequency noise, so applied some additional filtering; overall the system was reported to be great.

 

[beej]

You could wire it passive, but eventually you'd need an outboard preamp. I figure, if you're going through all of the hassle to install the piezo, why not install a preamp at the same time?

The system is definitely great, and I do love the way it sounds.

 

[Sticky1973]

Thanks beej.

I am still waiting on things to arrive, so it'll be a few weeks before it is all assembled. I might just go for the preamp from the outset, save hassle later.

I am still mulling over the switching options.

Standard JP6 style switching will be the first requirement, the authentic single coil tone next, and finally the piezo options(s). Five distinct tones from the outset.

I would like to keep the layout clutter to a minimum, and propose a 3 throw toggle for the humbuckers, and possibly put the single and piezo out on the ring of the TRS socket using the same 3 throw switch operation on separate poles. This stereo output will provide my "crank or clean" option; probably at my feet (or off a push-pull for Piezo volume?).

I have often thought it would be interesting to take all available outputs from the pickups to a dedicated shielded connector, and route them to switches at my feet. I worry if this is entirely unfeasible due to likelihood of noise, and signal loss?

Just throwing ideas around for now, there are much doodles to be drawn up until I firm up what I go with. Feel free to add in experiences/observations.