Albert Lee BFR...Neked!! Pics of Musicap install

[lenny]

Hey gang as with all my guitars i tend to open em up and put in a Hovland Musicap...to replace the .047 chicklet tone coupler.....the reason i do this is the MusiCaps deliver exceptional dynamics, speed, focus, correct timbre and depth of field, and true inter-transient silence.
Separate layers of polypropylene film & conductive foil deliver superior clarity that metalized capacitors can not.
most audiophiles use these in their hi end amps and speakers and such ....the one i use is the 1000v .047 ...same value as the original ...but the chicklet cap is worth .20 cents and the hovland cap almost 20.00 bucks....the difference in caps is like the difference in a Musicman guitar VS an Epiphone
after the install it takes about 10 hours to break in the cap....but the difference is night and day ....i know ,i know... its a freakin fabulous guitar as is ....and yip your right BUT i have a couple of guys with the same guitars(just AL's Not the BFR) and mine just has something about it after the tonecap change ...it doesnt change the tone it enhances whats already there...clearer mids and bottom crisper clearer high's and a snap that i cant get without it....i also use these on my Telecasters...and i use the .022's in my Les Paul......try one out you will be pleasantly surprised!!!

unlike MOST caps Hovland Musicap's are Directional....Green to the volume and red to the tone

 

[threeminutesboy]

I have seen those and was just wondering if it's improving the sound drastically.

Looks like I have my answer

Thanks for sharing

BTW, I Like the smiley on the middle PUP

 

[lenny]

Those stickers i assume came from the factory hahaha i didnt put them there but i did leave them hahahaha

 

[beej]

Yeah- lovin the stickers too. Nice work Lenny. She's a beaut inside as well

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

Those stickers are on all of them, a nice factory touch!

Cool to hear it is possible to make the BFR sound even better, although it is hard for me to believe.

 

[GHWelles]

Cool. But you know those are really for audiophile listenting systems. Overkill in a guitar.
But I just cut the tone pot out of the circuit altogether anyway, so you can ignore my comments. . . .

 

[lenny]

Cool. But you know those are really for audiophile listenting systems. Overkill in a guitar.
But I just cut the tone pot out of the circuit altogether anyway, so you can ignore my comments. . . .

I told the gang that these are used by AUDIOPHILES....not to be rude but you obviously didnt read my post.....and you just hafta look at the original chicklet cap to make the call on this one ....tight more focused definately not overkill ....they do make the smaller ones ..they are the same thing but for the guiatr cavity ...i like the originals myself...

Not really overkill when it does the job better than anything else out there i guess ..and its a $3750.00 retail guitar not your standard Harmony......but like the man said

TONE IS IN THE EAR OF THE BEHOLDER.....TO EACH HIS TONE!!

 

[JMB27]

Great pics and very interesting idea. Thank you for sharing this.

cheers always, eh

Joel

 

[jamminjim]

Cool Lenny, was wondering about these types of caps for guitars - though I feel the 1000V rating is a bit of overkill for the circuit in a guitar.

I would probably go with something like this cap for alot less moolah. I like PIO caps.

Guitar Tone Capacitor for fender stratocaster PIO cap Q - eBay (item 290301258919 end time Apr-06-09 15:26:14 PDT)

this Hovland was a little cheaper
Hovland Musicap .047uf Capacitor TONE CONTROL NEW! - eBay (item 110349500103 end time Apr-10-09 18:49:10 PDT)

 

[MusicManJP6]

but like the man said

TONE IS IN THE EAR OF THE BEHOLDER.....TO EACH HIS TONE!!

That's my line!! I've had that in my sig for as long as i've been a member! Does this mean I am 'the man'?

Cool mod by the way. Thanks for sharing!

 

[lenny]

Cool Lenny, was wondering about these types of caps for guitars - though I feel the 1000V rating is a bit of overkill for the circuit in a guitar.

I would probably go with something like this cap for alot less moolah. I like PIO caps.

Guitar Tone Capacitor for fender stratocaster PIO cap Q - eBay (item 290301258919 end time Apr-06-09 15:26:14 PDT)

this Hovland was a little cheaper
Hovland Musicap .047uf Capacitor TONE CONTROL NEW! - eBay (item 110349500103 end time Apr-10-09 18:49:10 PDT)

those are both fine and i like the newer technology of the hovland but when Leo built he used paper and oil.....the 2nd link is the new Hovland 600v smaller size and they are film and foil ...my 1000v is just bigger ..so it looks like overkill both will work ...

 

[candid_x]

I read so much debate about whether high end tone caps matter in a guitar, pro and con, don't know what to believe.

I received a free Angela pure copper foil, silver leadout paper in oil .047 tone cap with a set of Fralin pickups, recommending to replace the stock one for purer tone. No idea if replacing the stock cap with this would make a difference or if it's just voodoo tinkering. Looks awfully big for a guitar.

Just thinking here... the stock tone control with the Fralins did roll off less evenly than with the stock pickups. Wonder if the cap they sent somehow offsets that? I might drop it in and see.

 

[beej]

This seems to be one of those areas where everyone has an opinion, and it's hard to make sense of the truth.

Here's a neat link to someone who's tested the linearity of different capacitor types. There's definitely a difference.

However in this application (the tone pot) the signal isn't really passing through the cap. It's really there to bleed off highs to ground. So one school of thought is that the construction of the cap doesn't really matter; you're just throwing away those frequencies that pass through it.

On the other side of the fence, I've heard people make the argument that the inductance inherent in a capacitor makes a difference; that different types of caps introduce different inductances. From that perspective the type of cap could make a difference.

Anecdotally, I can't say I've ever heard a difference, but I've never done a real test. I would love to see some objective data. Somebody has to have made some real world measurements.

 

[candid_x]

Thanks, Beej!

I'll look over the link.

 

[candid_x]

Pretty consistent with what I was just reading about paper in oil having the smoothest taper.

Thought about it awhile, going to keep it stock.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Good thread - but please don't ask me to explain whether any of my guitars display ..
"timbre, depth of field, and true inter-transient silence".
Usually I'm just too darn loud !!

 

[GHWelles]

I am skeptical. I have tried 250K tone pot, 500K, 1mg, treble bleed circuits, etc. I just find it hard to believe the type of cap makes that big a difference. I like the treble bleed mod on the volume cap anyway, or cutting the tone pot out of the circuit altogether anyway so that has more of an effect on the tone.

 

[jamminjim]

Interesting

In the article Beej linked to - I found this excerpt interesting;

"The paper in oil is extremely clean, best of the group. That may be one reason why some people prefer the sound of the paper capacitors. Although not recorded, oil capacitors in general appear to be very linear. These caps also appear to have relatively stable characteristics with change in frequency."

and this;

these characteristics (of ceramic caps) can be used to advantage to add "crunch" to guitar amps

That happens to be the first particular mention about ceramic cap characteristics relating to guitar amps that I've read. Leo used them in particular places in his amps.

Beej - I took a new 250K pot and hooked up my fluke between the wiper and one side terminal (as if in an Albert Lee for instance) and measured ohms throughout the pots travel. I measured 242.5 kohms on the upper end and 4.5 ohms on the lower end. It appears to me that the tone filter cap is never totally out of the circuit. This would indicate there is a constant variable RC filter always present in the guitars signal path.
Unless the guitarist or tech has installed a no-load tone pot, that is. (Note: it's easy to make a no-load tone pot from a plain tone pot)

I think there is something to the "capacitor sound" subject, and I believe many people can hear a difference. However as we are talking about the human ear, and everyone is different, it can never be an exact science. Some folks will just not hear any difference. I believe it takes a ""trained" ear to discover the subtle nuances of different capacitors effects on the signal path. You have to learn what you are looking for in order to discover it, so to speak. Of course this could all "be in my head" LOL

 

[jamminjim]

I also think this is interesting...............

..................and pertinent to this subject. However, be forewarned, the information in this referenced link is way past the interest of most guitarists. The conclusion is a pretty good read itself.

"2.4 - Capacitors in General
Electronics World did an epic series of articles written by Cyril Bateman [3], where he went to extreme measures to develop equipment to be able to measure the distortion of common capacitors. Again, this was done with an AC voltage applied across the cap, so the results are generally of far less importance for a coupling cap. The findings are useful for determining the usefulness of various caps in filter circuits (especially passive crossover networks) though, and he quickly disposes of a number of persistent myths, including (but not limited to) the following:

All ceramic capacitors introduce distortion
Dielectric absorption compresses dynamic range and "smears" audio
Polyester dielectrics are lossy and inefficient
Capacitors look inductive at audio frequencies
A capacitor's ESR is a fixed quantity"

"All capacitors have some inductance, but what is often overlooked is that the leads are the primary cause for this"

reference: Capacitor Characteristics

 

[candid_x]

"All capacitors have some inductance, but what is often overlooked is that the leads are the primary cause for this"

Is it therefore correct to say that longer leads equals greater inductance? The big oil/paper cap would require longer leads.