"I Can't Play X Music With X Bass" - A Rant

[spencer]

I agree! Even more now than ever, which is why I said I prefered the single H, now that I play in a band with two guitarists, my bass tone is even more covered up! All the time and money I spent trying to get a good tone is now almost unaudiable. You can hear the bass sure but the characteristics of it are almost lost. This is why I say give me a single H I can make it work and less stuff for me to mess around with. But I'd prefer a certain bass over a certain amp for sure.. However you can make anything work with any type of music.

 

[Spanky(Andy)]

Jack,

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but I have to disagree. Neither my 30th Anni StingRay4 or my unlined fretless 3-band StingRay4 work for Hungarian Polka music... I mean specifically trying to play the piano accordian bits...

No matter what technique I use, both instruments fail to sound like anything other than iconic, industry standard, world class, professional basses.... even if the drunk chick in the front row is flashing me

Cheers

Andy

 

[Goofball Jones]

This is my major MAJOR pet peeve. And it extends out to just about all aspects of music. Hell, forget talking about using a MM in a jazz band....most jazz players stick their noses up in the air if you even mention "electric". They're all about the double-bass. They don't even care if you can play very well or not, they just want to see the double-bass up on the stage and not a bassist with an amp, even though the guitarist playing the archtop is plugged into an amp . I personally listen to music with my ears, not my eyes. But whatever...

And then it gets even weirder in the double-bass world. To hear some people talking, you have to have decades (literally, decades) of training...not just play-time, but actual training...to be considered any good at double-bass. I know some double-bassists that have been playing for 15 years and they're still taking lessons from people who themselves are still taking lessons. So, to play this thing you have to have more training than a medical doctor? Well, if you are to believe these guys. Honestly, I think most say that because they want to discourage anyone else from picking up the double-bass. Decades of training...even though some of the greats in Jazz seemed to have skipped the "decades" of training part and actually went out and played, such as Paul Chambers being 23 when he recorded on "Kind of Blue" and Scott LaFaro was 25 when he recorded on "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" with Bill Evans...so unless these guys started playing when they were 6, they didn't have the "decades" of training.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail your rant with my rant.

 

[Manfloozy]

This is my major MAJOR pet peeve. And it extends out to just about all aspects of music. Hell, forget talking about using a MM in a jazz band....most jazz players stick their noses up in the air if you even mention "electric". They're all about the double-bass. They don't even care if you can play very well or not, they just want to see the double-bass up on the stage and not a bassist with an amp, even though the guitarist playing the archtop is plugged into an amp . I personally listen to music with my ears, not my eyes. But whatever...

And then it gets even weirder in the double-bass world. To hear some people talking, you have to have decades (literally, decades) of training...not just play-time, but actual training...to be considered any good at double-bass. I know some double-bassists that have been playing for 15 years and they're still taking lessons from people who themselves are still taking lessons. So, to play this thing you have to have more training than a medical doctor? Well, if you are to believe these guys. Honestly, I think most say that because they want to discourage anyone else from picking up the double-bass. Decades of training...even though some of the greats in Jazz seemed to have skipped the "decades" of training part and actually went out and played, such as Paul Chambers being 23 when he recorded on "Kind of Blue" and Scott LaFaro was 25 when he recorded on "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" with Bill Evans...so unless these guys started playing when they were 6, they didn't have the "decades" of training.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail your rant with my rant.

I wonder how many decades this guy's been playing....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUcNog20lng"]YouTube - Bass Tribute to Michael Jackson - Billie Jean[/ame]

 

[MK Bass Weed]

This is my major MAJOR pet peeve. And it extends out to just about all aspects of music. Hell, forget talking about using a MM in a jazz band....most jazz players stick their noses up in the air if you even mention "electric". They're all about the double-bass. They don't even care if you can play very well or not, they just want to see the double-bass up on the stage and not a bassist with an amp, even though the guitarist playing the archtop is plugged into an amp . I personally listen to music with my ears, not my eyes. But whatever...

And then it gets even weirder in the double-bass world. To hear some people talking, you have to have decades (literally, decades) of training...not just play-time, but actual training...to be considered any good at double-bass. I know some double-bassists that have been playing for 15 years and they're still taking lessons from people who themselves are still taking lessons. So, to play this thing you have to have more training than a medical doctor? Well, if you are to believe these guys. Honestly, I think most say that because they want to discourage anyone else from picking up the double-bass. Decades of training...even though some of the greats in Jazz seemed to have skipped the "decades" of training part and actually went out and played, such as Paul Chambers being 23 when he recorded on "Kind of Blue" and Scott LaFaro was 25 when he recorded on "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" with Bill Evans...so unless these guys started playing when they were 6, they didn't have the "decades" of training.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail your rant with my rant.

Okay, that's not offensive. .You made a HUGE generalization, which for the most part...is alot of BS. A rant and just as prejudiced as the kind of crap you say you despise.

So you diss ALL Jazz players and players who want to learn jazz theory and learn to play, maybe invest in actually 'learning music', as opposed to 'feeling it man', all in one paragraph.

You mentioned Scott LaFaro, did you actually READ Jade Visions or Listen to the new CD Pieces of Jade?

LaFaro understood music...in a deep and profound way. He didn't start on the bass. He started on piano when he was a kid. He took what he knew about music and applied it to the instrument. You argument isn't sound.

Exactly the stuff Jack is ranting about, you put forth in your own rant.

I don't mean to get in a pissing match with you, but this what I think Jack's point was. This is not really defensible as an argument, let alone the truth.

 

[T-bone]

And not just the Peter Gabriel records, although god knows Tony gets plenty of different tones on those....but he gets around pretty good, plenty of different styles. I loved his work with Paula Cole, Jules Shear and Willie Porter. And I'm betting he didn't have to go "find" a bass that worked for each stylistic change!

He definitely "gets around pretty good." I'd completely forgot about this.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3AUiCGqnk"]YouTube - John Lennon with Cheap Trick- I´m losing you[/ame]

tbone

 

[AnthonyD]

Some people you just... can't... reach...


Don't let 'em take space in your head. Try to educate them, them move on.


Ultimately their loss.

 

[bovinehost]

You jazz poofters settle down or I'll get all rockabilly on your ass.

 

[TheAntMan]

I wonder how many decades this guy's been playing....

YouTube - Bass Tribute to Michael Jackson - Billie Jean

AWESOME!!!

Loved that!!!

It was technique with EQ-ing in the mix....Perfect!

Thanks for sharing that

--Ant

 

[coastie72]

I have never been a great bass player, never will, I could be better and find as I get older it is easier to learn. Back in my hay day, I played in one of the top country/variety bands around my metro area. Everybody always was asking when are you going to get a Fender, my answer was always the same, never! I did end up with an acoustic Fender, that is just taking up space. I played Gibson's back then and still do so sometimes. I don't know how many time I was asked how I made my Gibson sound so good? I just played it was all I knew to say! I was often ask how I got so much sustain, I would just laugh and say maybe because it's a Gibson! I am proud to say that come Saturday I will embark on a new era, most likely my last at 59, with my new EBMM. I've never played one in a band, never hardly played one at all, but I know I will love it. It is all in the users hands! I am certainly not worried that it won't fit with the music I play, I only hope that I can do the instrument justice!

 

[syciprider]

Refusal to break paradigms.

This is why I find BP's crusade to wean bassists away from the 1950s a noble one.

However, the fact that many of us are still so locked into what a certain genre's bass lines are supposed to sound like means that it's going to be a long hard road for Sterling. It's going to be a fun ride for those who listen to his Gospel though!

 

[drTStingray]

You jazz poofters settle down or I'll get all rockabilly on your ass.

Now you're talking!!! Enough of this poofter jazz (however So What sounds great on my 93 Ray fretless with the treble and mids rolled off! Did it in a jam session with some guys). AND so does Shotgun Boogie, Don't be Cruel etc and all the other 50s stuff I do in the rock and roll band I play in - I replaced a double bass player cos the guitarist said he prefered playing with someone whose notes he could hear rather than a load of slap clattering!

It's hard work though - the number of people after gigs who say 'can you play double bass? '

Back to Jack's thread - your rants are always so on the money! The only people who ever question me playing a Musicman are people who don't play bass and guitarists who dabble in bass a bit! The way I look at it is an analogy with cars.

If you want to have one vehicle which you can drive the kids to school in, go shopping in (and if this floats your boat) go off road at the week-end and also use it for longer distnace trips you buy the 4 x 4 RAV type thing. If you want to just drive around town some mini compact would probably work etc etc. You might use a Rolls Royce to do that if you want to do it in very very plush comfort

The Fender bass, in skilled hands can do a lot - in unskilled hands it can do a bit. The MM bass, in skilled hands, can do all the Fender can do plus a whole lot more - in unskilled hands it can probably do more than a Fender can in the same hands.

I reckon it's all in the hands and basically what you want to get out of it. I've seen internationally famous bands of all genres use MM basses, many mentioned here but there's a load of others (Chicago Climax Blues Band is one that springs to mind) - I've also seen them used in stage shows extensively in situations that the 'MM basses are a one trick pony brigade' would never believe - eg Stingray 5 in a Stax stage show touring the UK - producing the authentic Duck Dunn thump (plus a bit more when asked).

The guys Jack is talking about really simply demonstrate a lack of knowledge (and in some cases skill in playing). The current fad is for vintage instruments (Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker, pre-EB MM - hell even Burns in the UK) - maybe the classic Stingrays will help change this, who knows.

But this thread is a good rant Jack, and a subject that we've probably all got wound up about over the years!

 

[Bloodfist]

Music Man makes a fine bass but dialing down the aggressive character is not possible

I call BS, tell this jack leg to come listen to my tone...

 

[Kirby]

I have played jazz on my Sterlings for years. I agree totally with the comfort zone mentioned earlier and how comfortable you are with yourself as a player. I do prefer my Stingrays tone wise for country/folk, but any and all can and will work.

The only time I can see having to change basses is when I am doing a lot of upper register playing and where two octaves are needed. On that note, I do not believe Leo or anyone else at EB was shooting for that market. Bottom line, a quality instrument will allow you the player to play any type of music. It is up to you how well it is executed. Most times of poor execution are the result of too little practice rather than the instrument in my opinion.

 

[steve f]

I think that a part of this discussion has to do with whether you are trying to create your own sound or trying to imitate someone else's. If I have a specific sound in my head when I play a particular genre (usually because I've heard someone else do it that way) then I may feel limited by my gear and I may feel like I have to depend on my gear to get me that sound. In reality, the gear has very little to do with it.

If I start with the gear that I'm comfortable using and try to make an original musical contribution to what's going on then anything's possible. It may be tough to use a Sterling to sound like Marcus Miller but it's not that difficult to play kick ass slap jazz grooves that would work in that style of music with one. I think some of this has to do with maturity as a musician. When we start out we emulate our heroes and always carry a little of that but there comes a time when you've got to have the confidence to let that go and do your thing with the technique and gear that works for you.

Pino sounds like Pino whether he's using a fretless Ray or a P-bass.
Percy is Percy with a fretless P-bass, a Wal, or an Ibanez.
You can tell they're playing a different bass, Pino's P-sound is not anything like his fretless Ray sound, but his musical sensibilities come through loud and clear. By the same token, Percy and Pino playing on the same track on a fretless P-bass would sound completely different.

I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across, but it makes sense in my head...

 

[darkblack]

Nice rant, Bovine.

I think a lot of players, experienced and beginner alike, make a common mistake...They forget that the tone is in the hands and head. The instrument merely facilitates the transfer of air molecule motion from one medium to another.

I could play any style required of me with my Bongo, or any other instrument I own with one possible exception and even that might be doable with some advance visualization and practice. That's why I bought these instruments, because they work - well, and consistently.

IMO, Those who complain about 'suitability' and such are the mildly time-weathered version of those who previously wasted pixels on such riveting topics as 'What bass is right for me? Pleas help!!!'

My advice to them all is step away from the keyboard, close your mouth, put the bass in playing position and let it do the talking a while.

 

[Bloodfist]

The instrument merely facilitates the transfer of air molecule motion from one medium to another.

ummm...what? That sounds like something a drummer would say...

 

[Goofball Jones]

Okay, that's not offensive. .You made a HUGE generalization, which for the most part...is alot of BS. A rant and just as prejudiced as the kind of crap you say you despise.

So you diss ALL Jazz players and players who want to learn jazz theory and learn to play, maybe invest in actually 'learning music', as opposed to 'feeling it man', all in one paragraph.

You mentioned Scott LaFaro, did you actually READ Jade Visions or Listen to the new CD Pieces of Jade?

LaFaro understood music...in a deep and profound way. He didn't start on the bass. He started on piano when he was a kid. He took what he knew about music and applied it to the instrument. You argument isn't sound.

Exactly the stuff Jack is ranting about, you put forth in your own rant.

I don't mean to get in a pissing match with you, but this what I think Jack's point was. This is not really defensible as an argument, let alone the truth.

Sorry...didn't mean to hit a nerve. It's okay man...just 'feeling it man'

 

[MK Bass Weed]

Feelin' the love

 

[bovinehost]

So! The threats worked!