Question Pickup Magnets

[ZiggyDude]

While reading the posts about the vintage and newer basses - I noticed that EBMM basses use neo, alnico, and ceramic pickups. The Bongo is neo I think.

What is the difference in the sound? I think some thought the ceramic was more a rock n roll growl.

I was just wondering how the choice of material is matched to the bass in making its signature tone. I know we have the humbucker vs. single pole thing to. But - going a bit more generic on the magnet type.

Thanx,

 

[shakinbacon]

While reading the posts about the vintage and newer basses - I noticed that EBMM basses use neo, alnico, and ceramic pickups. The Bongo is neo I think.

What is the difference in the sound? I think some thought the ceramic was more a rock n roll growl.

I was just wondering how the choice of material is matched to the bass in making its signature tone. I know we have the humbucker vs. single pole thing to. But - going a bit more generic on the magnet type.

Thanx,

I think this is an excellent question but pretty difficult to answer. Its kind of like asking what the difference in sound a body woods makes. The thing with Musicman pickups is they seem to match all the materials (magnet, wire, winding, placement, preamp) to get specific sounds. The only thing I can tell you with certainty is Neodymium magnets tend to be strongest permanent magnets around. Thus for a given pickup if only the magnet type was changed, the Neodymium should have the highest output. Don't know what it does to tone though.

Sorry, I know I'm not of much help but I suggest trying the different basses you are considering as you are going to be the only one who's opinion matters in the end.

good luck

 

[keko]

I tried all, and each sounds different, if we talking when EQ set flat, and for example just single H switched/balanced!

Alnico sounds more vintage and let's say not widely, but very classic and in fact all you need for usual playing! If there's no piezo included you need some work with preamp to make it clear! (mostly boost some highs)

Ceramic (my choice) sounds wider than alnico at the first place, more "metal" and "zingy" and very clear, so need for using preamp is just for minimal corrections!

Neodymium is even more wide in tone character than ceramic, especially in low end!
It's also more powerful (almost brutal), obviously have stronger magnetic field and higher impedance, automatically we have a stronger output! I had a feeling that with Neodymium I should cut some frequencies, instead to boost it!

Take this review as my personal point of view, but I'm sure that is not far from real status of the facts!

 

[Chuck B]

Did anybody mount those pups onto the same bass? That would be interesting...

 

[keko]

Did anybody mount those pups onto the same bass? That would be interesting...

Yeah, I just thinking about that right now!

Just have a conversation with friend at work about that matter!

I always wonder how could sounds Bongos's Neo H on mine Sterling for example?

Or some other combinations?

Very interesting Thread indeed!

 

[RocketRalf]

In my very undocumented understanding, a stronger pickup will give more output and a broader frequency response, that is, more highs and lows, just like keko reported. Alnico<Ceramic<Neodymium in terms of magnet strength. Of course we can't compare them directly because there are other factors that make the sound different in the EBMM bass range: from the pickup itself (number of windings, etc) to the woods used, body dimensions, strings model and age, and probably most important the EQ voicing, etc.

The only case were we might be able to compare directly is between the older ceramic SR5 and the current alnico SR5, and I'm not sure if the pickup has the same specification in every way except the magnet material. And then we'd have to butcher them to try the two pickups in the same bass.

 

[Stereo_Monkey]

The only case were we might be able to compare directly is between the older ceramic SR5 and the current alnico SR5, and I'm not sure if the pickup has the same specification in every way except the magnet material. And then we'd have to butcher them to try the two pickups in the same bass.

I am sure that EBMM R&D has compared them all

 

[ZiggyDude]

It is kind of interesting. Like one custom pickup maker feels alnico is stronger than neo and has a fuller tone. But I suspect others feel differently.

I never thought about the idea of the magnets losing zap after a while. During my slot car racing years we used to have to be careful about that with the racing motors. After crashes, heat, other stuff, the magnets would need rezapped or replaced. Of course - unless we are trashing stuff like The Who and using a bass for a battle axe - I would think that they have a more pampered life than a slot car

 

[keko]

The best magnetic pickup would be wide construction of coils which could cover whole playable space between neck and bridge!

Instead permanent magnets, it would be better to use active electromagnetic steel (or another metal material) cores surrounded partly with wired coil and powered with external electric current power supply (electro-magnets), and other part wired with signal coil for output signal!
I know, this mighty power supply is impossible to built in bass , but in theory in that case could be possible to have control over strength of magnetic field of each part of this "huge" pickup field, and practically "move" effective pickup section from neck to the bridge with built in electronic control unit...etc.

I know that mostly just tech educated persons will understand what I'm talking about, but I tried to simplify my theory as much as possible!

One more thing is interesting here, such a strong pickup field could be built under the thin wooden top, so this pickup could be invisible!

But forget it guys, it's just my imagination, ...but I'll continue to research...

 

[shakinbacon]

The best magnetic pickup would be wide construction of coils which could cover whole playable space between neck and bridge!

Interesting idea Keko

I just wanted to point out that getting as much signal as possible from an instrument isn't necessarily "best". The tone would likely be totally different than sampling from a single point. It might actually turn out to sound worse to some people.

 

[keko]

Interesting idea Keko

I just wanted to point out that getting as much signal as possible from an instrument isn't necessarily "best". The tone would likely be totally different than sampling from a single point. It might actually turn out to sound worse to some people.

I'm sorry that You didn't noticed the most important part of my theory:

"... in theory in that case could be possible to have control over strength of magnetic field of each part of this "huge" pickup field, and practically "move" effective pickup section from neck to the bridge with built in electronic control unit..."

So, the point is to allow to the musicians to make a choice which part of that controlled magnetic pickup field will use!
Control unit must also allow to control the Q factor (wideness) and position of used electromagnetic pickup field!


Anyway, that is to complicated and would be to expensive for production, so for now usual pickups, switching/balancing ...etc., ...is just all any bass player need!

Music and play the bass is most important anyway!

 

[Stereo_Monkey]

BTW: the 3 neodymium single coils that are build into the Big Al are all the same size. For that reason the pole pieces of the middle and neck pickup are not exactly centered under the strings. I am not noticing any disadvantages and love my Big Al! BUT, would it change the sound in any way if all the pieces would be centered under the strings (sustain, sound)?

 

[ZiggyDude]

You know - we pay big stuff and banter about woods and laminations and all that stuff. Then we use a pickup that listens to the strings and the wood is basically background information.

A gear head hi end friend of mine was always looking for stuff that "Did Not Color Sound". But he never could answer how you know what is not colored? My best choice to hear the true sound of a bass is pick a quiet place and rested ears, NO AMP!, play some stuff while your ear is pressed against the body (usually the upper horn). The sound I hear that tells me what the bass "Really" sounds like. Plug into an amp and (expression) "you get what!?!".

So - why not put the pickup in the wood somplace? Answer is simple. Strap noise, human heartbeat, vibrations from stage noise, vibrations from crowd and PA noise. It would be a mess. Until now. A string pickup that went to a processor that then also heard the body pickup and "KNEW" what to filter out.

OK - I Be Prattlin.......... Night Time!

Not that this answers the question I posed to the EBMM techies about magnets. But still a fun thread.

 

[Grand Wazoo]

It has been fun to read

 

[adam30y]

Hi all!

I would buy an SR5 H was born on 1996. Can anybody inform me, what type of pickup magnets is in that bass, alnico or ceramic?

thanks!

 

[IvanHardy]

whar magnets do stingrays come with?

 

[OutToPlayJazz]

Stingray 4's have always been equipped with alnico magnets (very classic and soulful sounding.) Stingray 5's had the brighter & cleaner sounding (my personal preference) ceramic magnets up until early 2008 and now have the same alnico magnets as the 4-string model.

I'd certainly like to hear a Stingray with the new neodynium magnets from the Bongo...

 

[Musicman Nut]

Yeah, I just thinking about that right now!

Just have a conversation with friend at work about that matter!

I always wonder how could sounds Bongos's Neo H on mine Sterling for example?

Or some other combinations?

Very interesting Thread indeed!

EB does many tests long before they even let the public know whats going on so i can guarantee you they have done their home work well into all possibilities.

 

[oli@bass]

Hi all!

I would buy an SR5 H was born on 1996. Can anybody inform me, what type of pickup magnets is in that bass, alnico or ceramic?

thanks!

Official answer:

Sterlings (both 4 and 5 string) - have both always ceramic
Stingray4 - has always been alnico
Stingray5- alnico from 1987-1991, then ceramic from 1991 to 2008, and alnico from 2008 to current

 

[keko]

EB does many tests long before they even let the public know whats going on so i can guarantee you they have done their home work well into all possibilities.

I'm sure they have!

Thanks for the comfort anyway!