why do I bother?

[drTStingray]

Understood. I agree the soundman has a job and I have mine. My frustration is that the eq in the mix was so different that it would have affected my playing if I had heard it in real time.

When bass tone is heavy on the lows (for example in Reggae), I find I have to greatly simplify my bass lines.

In the end I'm trying to make the band sound good, not necessarily me.

I'll try many of the suggestions posted. Much appreciated everyone.

Shakinbacon it may be worth you checking how the EQ is set on the PA channel you're through.

I have had quite a problem with slapping/popping sounding far too trebly through a PA whilst it sounds fine through the amp (I mean ludicrously trebly to the point audience members have spoken to me about it). The problem was overcome by cutting the treble from centre on the bass channel on the PA.

If you want the PA to simply amplify your EQd sound on stage you may need to adjust the PA channel EQ dependent on the gear in use.

 

[Bloodfist]

That's why I like having the HH model. I'm in a cover band, and need all the tonal variety I can get from my basses.

Thats pretty much the reason I went with the HH as well. Even though I have a certain sound I like for my originals project, I do play with other people from time to time and play everything for hard rock to country. The HH is my one size fits all bass.

 

[niceguy]

I am probably being daft, but it sounds like you are comparing the sound from 3 different sources - the in-ear monitor, the stage (so just your amp, no monitors since you're using in-ear), and from the house system. It makes sense that none of those will sound the same, since you're comparing 3 different sized speakers with 3 sets of competing frequencies mixed in at 3 different relative volumes - or am I missing something?

 

[mynan]

I am probably being daft, but it sounds like you are comparing the sound from 3 different sources - the in-ear monitor, the stage (so just your amp, no monitors since you're using in-ear), and from the house system. It makes sense that none of those will sound the same, since you're comparing 3 different sized speakers with 3 sets of competing frequencies mixed in at 3 different relative volumes - or am I missing something?

Not daft at all...

 

[shakinbacon]

Shakinbacon it may be worth you checking how the EQ is set on the PA channel you're through.

I have had quite a problem with slapping/popping sounding far too trebly through a PA whilst it sounds fine through the amp (I mean ludicrously trebly to the point audience members have spoken to me about it). The problem was overcome by cutting the treble from centre on the bass channel on the PA.

If you want the PA to simply amplify your EQd sound on stage you may need to adjust the PA channel EQ dependent on the gear in use.

I checked the eq on the bass channel and the low freqs and hi mids/treb (~3kHz) were boosted. I can approximate this by boosting the bass and treble a bit on the Bongo.

I'll try to get closer to that on the signal I send the PA next time and see if that helps or hurts (assuming the soundman flattens out more). I gave him a heads up I'm gonna try it. However, this gets into the realm of me trying to mix for the front of house - which is not my goal...

One potential solution is to get the mixing board eq to go through the in-ear monitors. I would like to hear what the audience is.

Whatever it takes I'll dial it in.

 

[mynan]

It's all about the FOH. Keep in mind that in-ear systems are essentially designed to eliminate stage noise, which negatively affects the FOH...and to be super small so that you don't have to look like a goof wearing a set of headphones on stage. Unless you spend some serious $$$ on your in-ears, your bass isn't going to sound like it does through a good PA.

 

[oli@bass]

I would like to hear what the audience is.

I'd hate that!

 

[shakinbacon]

I am probably being daft, but it sounds like you are comparing the sound from 3 different sources - the in-ear monitor, the stage (so just your amp, no monitors since you're using in-ear), and from the house system. It makes sense that none of those will sound the same, since you're comparing 3 different sized speakers with 3 sets of competing frequencies mixed in at 3 different relative volumes - or am I missing something?

Not daft... you're right

Except that I wasn't using my amp for a personal monitor... I just used it for the DI.

 

[five7]

Have the foh soundman pull 100 hz out of the house eqs. all the way and then bring up slowly. If you don't have a wireless take your di out to the front of house and plug into the board and have a listen. 100 hz is where all the boominess is. Some rooms are so boomy you need to cut 15 db at 100. It will clean up the bass and the kick drum.

 

[shakinbacon]

update: all is good with the world again

So I did my homework and did all I could to get my sound using in ears via the Bongo tone controls only. I used the PRE DI output of my amp to give a clean tone to the board. I found this worked well with my amp when set for flat eq.

It sounded great with the in ears, and I gave up worrying about the FOH tone... that's not my job (as many of you said).

I did tell the leader I thought the in-ears didn't work great for bass... he's gonna get me "the good ones"... and he knows equipment so I'm excited.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement.

 

[Metropolis_488]

I usually do everything I can to convince the soundguy to mic my cab...they almost never do, though...

 

[shakinbacon]

I usually do everything I can to convince the soundguy to mic my cab...they almost never do, though...

Yeah, I've tried. There is a bias against it for bass. For guitar there's no second thought. I find most soundmen trying to get the bass to sound the way they want and leaving the guitar more or less alone (perhaps removing offending frequencies).

Its frustrating but it just seems to be the way things are done.

 

[sitonmybass]

This is a sore subject with me...

Sound techs want what they want for your sound and we will be forever at their mercy and discretion.

Is it just me, or do you find that the majority of sound techs try to get "volume" by boosting low freqencies rather than to take your balanced sound that you've worked so hard at getting over the years and amplifying it? Just give it clean gain; IS THAT SO HARD?

 

[oli@bass]

I usually do everything I can to convince the soundguy to mic my cab...they almost never do, though...

I absolutely don't want them to do that! My amp is my monitor and I adjust it so I can hear myself well on stage and I change settings during performance to fit my needs. It often does not sound the way I want my bass to sound but it's set to cut through the stage rumble. The sound tech gets a XLR line with my "approved" sound with all effects from the preamp before the EQ.

Is it just me, or do you find that the majority of sound techs try to get "volume" by boosting low freqencies rather than to take your balanced sound that you've worked so hard at getting over the years and amplifying it? Just give it clean gain; IS THAT SO HARD?

Maybe clean gain doesn't work for your band sound? Generally, a sound tech's job is to make the whole band sound good as possible in the current situation, not to make any player sound exactly like they want. Listen how they tweak the drums -- ever talked to your drummer how he liked it? And if you've ever played with a horn section, you know how far they go with that -- ever seen a sax player go crazy over how they sounded on the FOH?

But the point is: The whole mix has to sound good. If that's not the case, you should probably look for a new sound tech.

 

[cellkirk74]

This is a sore subject with me...

Sound techs want what they want for your sound and we will be forever at their mercy and discretion.

Is it just me, or do you find that the majority of sound techs try to get "volume" by boosting low freqencies rather than to take your balanced sound that you've worked so hard at getting over the years and amplifying it? Just give it clean gain; IS THAT SO HARD?

I simply do not give them a clean DI anymore.

There a so many good stompboxes out there today. I use a sansamp bass driver di and the soundguys are happy with gettin a tone they can just use.

Also most modern amps have a switch for pre /post-EQ of the DI.

A good hint is to cut 100Hz and 60 Hz, as this is where it booms, but this also is what the FOHs have large EQs and compressors / gates for.

 

[mynan]

Yeah, I've tried. There is a bias against it for bass. For guitar there's no second thought. I find most soundmen trying to get the bass to sound the way they want and leaving the guitar more or less alone (perhaps removing offending frequencies).

Its frustrating but it just seems to be the way things are done.

It's because the amp, for guitar, is a more crucial component to the "sound" of that instrument. If you put a DI between a guitar player's amp and effects it would sound weak in the FOH.

It's different for bass. As much as we like the sound of our rigs, most of the time the subtleties don't translate to the FOH in a live situation with a band. Not to mention the kind of gain you have to put on a mic to get the bass to sound as good it does with a DI...a nightmare for a sound guy because it's probably picking up more snare drum than anything.

 

[sitonmybass]

Maybe clean gain doesn't work for your band sound? Generally, a sound tech's job is to make the whole band sound good as possible in the current situation, not to make any player sound exactly like they want.

After I posted my "clean gain" reference, I had similar thoughts. A good front of house sound needs EQ adjustments to better suit the overall mix. Sound techs must utilize gain and EQ adjustments within proper respective proportions for the benefit of the mix.

 

[Powman]

But the point is: The whole mix has to sound good. If that's not the case, you should probably look for a new sound tech.

I could not have said it better myself.

(PS Oli. Did you see the score for the women's hockey game, Canada vs Switzerland??)

 

[oli@bass]

(PS Oli. Did you see the score for the women's hockey game, Canada vs Switzerland??)

(No, I don't even know what you're talking about... probably.... sports?! )