large chain music shops aren't for me?

[JayDawg]

With GC, my nearest one is almost 2 hours away. I had a bad experience at one in San Diego in the mid 90's and boycotted them. I then moved to a small town in Colorado that only has 1 music store and while I am cordial to the owner, he is known for screwing people over. Since I din't know of any other guitar stores here in Colorado I looked up where all of the GC's were in the State. I went to the Ft. Collins one and they earned my business back. Since I have a ways to travel, I always call before I go and if I am planning on buying anything I will actually make an appointment. Last time I was in there they took very good care of me and I will be back again.

 

[mynan]

Stacking amps/cabs to build your own stairway to those out-of-reach basses will almost always get a "Can I help you?"...

 

[ivbenaplayin]

I am in the distribution business and my academic career is in supply chain management. The concept of a portfolio of products and distribution channels rings true accross products and industries. It is hard and cold - you cannot have high-end without low-end. And, it's not just profit related - availability of raw materials and distribution channels are also big issues.

I'll use an example from a former hobby of mine that translates pretty well to the music business - pipe smoking. As with any hobby, there is craziness those not involved would be surprised. Pipes are made of briar, which is essentially the root of a tree / bush. It is very hard to harvest, it is done by hand, and the yeild is terribly small. High-end pipe smokers always decry the 'cheap' guys and 'drugstore' pipes. Here again, there is no high-end without low-end. Why - there's no reason to harvest briar if all you are going to get is the 'high-end' market. Its painfully small and the yeild from your efforts is painfully small. But, if there is a market for the not-so-great and sub-standard briar - it becomes worth my while. So, whether its one manufacturers portfolio of business, or an industry, there is great need for the entry level or lower-end product line.

Same relates to retail outlets - they are distribution channels. GC is not gooing to make any money with a store full of EBMM Ball Reserve - there just isn't a mass market for that. The little guy ain't making money in the same situation.

Lastly, I'm in the beer business. We are set up to make lots of it, and we do. Its what the market wants - we aren't brainwashing anyone to drink mass produced beer. The afficianodos all bemoan us - imports, craft, etc. etc. Listen, we make the best stuff on the planet; we've got it here; we get it here in our employee pub; I'm 50 yards from our tech center pilot brewery - we've got tons of products we could push out. There's just not the market for it. We have a large production and distribution beast to feed - the smaller brewers, teas, waters, etc. feed off that distribution channel. Small brewers aren't getting quality hops, grains, etc. without us either (see above).

Anyhow, my bloated .02. What does it mean? I like Guitar Center, if there large scale distribution channel did not exist - we'd see way less products in the market place.

JIM

All the guys I know that smoke pipes don't use briar, they either use glass or brass...

 

[Yerf Dog]

our employee pub

 

[kevins]

meh i find the giant chain stores stifling to allowing the little guy to be able to make a profit and eventually have a location that offers as much as the big places do. fact is when they go up in any neighborhood a lot of people who have been there for a long time or who are just starting out go under. and its not cause "they aren't offering as good a service" its because they're starting out on their own dime rather than having a giant name brand company behind them.

as for prices, never bought from a major chain store, even when the price seemed right, in fact, invariably every little store has beaten major chain store on price in every occaision. instead of paying the 1200 dollars that major un-named chain store wanted i ended up getting my stingray for 1000 with the case brand new built to my specifications from a store that has 1 location and was allowed throughout the years to grow to its current size.

ill admit that a lot of stores do not have the same selection as the big places do but i really think that this is because they dont make it to that point before the big guys move in.

i mean a world where we only have one place to buy a guitar from seems to kinda be a lousy thing if one person is presenting the world of musical instruments to us. variety is pretty bitchin' to me


oh and that is not to say that all small business owners are saints. i know a guy who is awful. the bastard got my good friend nearly arrested for running a guitar shop out of his basement because he was selling more washburns in the area than him. the company didnt care so the guy begged city hall to do something about it. the bastard also sent a bunch of scruffy emo kids with piercings to scratch up his guitars. right now the jerk has alienated all of his friends, lost all his teachers at his shop and is probobly going out of business soon, and frankly when you're that ruthless about competetion, you deserve it.

 

[Boogie.Man]

GC Mostly Good

Big chain stores rock.

My buddy Kevin bought two SBMM guitars and today decided he needed an amp. I went to Guitar Center in Lewisville and had a nice chat with the bass guy, Zack. Meanwhile, Kevin was trying some Vox amps with built-in modeling and so on, attended by Noah, who was also very nice.

Yes, the SLO Special needed a truss rod adjustment. Yes, I did it myself while Zack looked on. We talked bass stuff and Kevin bought a Vox.

It was a most excellent experience.

Chris at that store in Lewisville is also a great guy to work with. I have had great experiences shopping at all of the GCs in the DFW area. Sure there are a few less than desirable sales people, but they are far outweighed by the good ones. If it weren't for GC, I doubt that I would have my three MM basses and may not even have heard of them. I would much rather shop at GC than a small local Mom & Pop store with limited inventory, attitude, inflated prices, crappy to no return policies.

 

[bovinehost]

meh i find the giant chain stores stifling....ill admit that a lot of stores do not have the same selection as the big places do...i mean a world where we only have one place to buy a guitar from seems to kinda be a lousy thing...variety is pretty bitchin' to me

At the risk of repeating myself yet again and once again proving myself to be an extremely old fogey, many of you don't go back far enough to remember life before Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Sam Ash, etc etc. Maybe if you lived in LA or NYC things were okay, but out in the real world (try Biloxi, MS) in the 60s and 70s? IT SUCKED.

When I was 15, 16, the only "big" shop was in the mall, and you had to wade through a bunch of cheesy organs to get to the guitar department. The single Precision bass was on the wall behind the counter and I don't think even the sales monkeys were allowed to touch it. Boy, that was GREAT. Oh, and prices? Yeah, whatever they wanted because no one else had anything like it unless you wanted to drive to New Orleans, where you might find it for 10 bucks cheaper. Oh, the good old days! Bad Guitar Center!

Then when I was maybe 18, Mountain Music opened up on Pass Road and boy were we stoked. Bunch of long-haired guys like us, selling......Peavey. Lots and lots of Peavey. "You can have a Peavey or you can have a Peavey, we have Peavey, too." They carried a few different companies re guitars and basses, but again - one model of each if you were lucky and the prices were whatever the manufacturer said they should be. You certainly weren't going to find one used on eBay.

Bitch, bitch bitch all you want about it, but it's better than it was. WAY better than it was.

Jack

PS: And I love my mom and pop dealers, too, I really do, especially those DuBaldo guys.

 

[Sweat]

Plus, Lorino can get you beer.

Yummm...BEER

Bitch, bitch bitch all you want about it, but it's better than it was. WAY better than it was.

Jack

PS: And I love my mom and pop dealers, too, I really do, especially those DuBaldo guys.

Just my 2 cents from a sucky guitar player, these threads seem to come up way too often, and yes I even started one a few years back but I was stupid back then.

Jacks posts are dead on, and I too love the smaller dealers, have done business with several and lots with the DuBaldos who take pretty good care of my needs, BUT

So does GC and Musicians Friend, and remember some higher ups in GC do read these threads, example of taking care of customer, I bought a high end EBMM guitar from GC.com and ordered next day air shipping, well it did not arrive the next day, well a couple phone calls and emails later I recieved a call from one of there VP,s he took charge and had the guitar delivered immediately, waived the shipping fees and sent me a GC giftcard, MF has don the same thing.

Also build a relationship in the store you use most and if you are not recieving attention of help ask someone not hard to go and say please let me try this piece of equipment.

I never have a problem due to my realationship I have built with the North Dallas GC and especially Robbie, he takes great care of me and it does have its perks, like a discount here and there, or the pleasure of going through the pieces before they are displayed, i.e. see Dallas Guitar Show thread

Bottom line no store is perfect but way to much GC bashing, like Jack said WAY BETTER than before in all ways.

Thanks for listening

 

[lorino]

Wal-Mart, small business, etc.

People vote with their feet - its quite Darwinian. Fortunately or unfortunately - depending on your perspective.

There always seems to be this view that there is some gestapo or black helicopters forcing people into Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Guitar Center, etc. etc. The same people decrying the loss of all the small shops (I do like small shops in any market) are at the big chain on the weekend spending their money. Selection, availability, and price are quite the aphrodesiac.

I'll say it again - its all about the distribution channel. It really is the success of America - we have an incredibly efficient and effective supply chain. Crops die in the fields in Europe and Asia, but we have fresh produce in our remote areas (Biloxi? it sucked in the 80's too when I was there).

Thomas Edison's success was also distribution - plenty of folks had experimented with filament bulbs and electricity. Edison figured out how to distribute the power - throughout the house and then throughout a neighborhood.

Did I mention Distribution is important?

PS: Jack, your hair was never long, just <BIG>

 

[Jim C]

There are a couple of exceptions for guys like me in the Washington DC area that had the biggest music store in the world in our back yard (Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center) and in the 70's Veneman Music too

For us, GC offers Markbass and a few small brands but Chuck's still has way more guitars & basses on the showroom floor

Guess NY lost that with some of their big guys going away like Sam Ash and the botique stores downtown

 

[cellkirk74]

I think you shouldn't complain at all. Over here we have about 3 really big stores where you can try about every piece of gear they have, but that is for whole Germany.

They are all grown family businesses, but far smaller than the bigger GCs in the US. And they are not significantly cheaper than any other shop, but they stock at least something else but F***** or W++w+++.

 

[tommixx]

MAN I used to drive to Wheaton, MD to Chuck Levin's like every other month back in the late 80's and into the 90's....THANK GOD for GC and my friend Michael Thrower out of the Raleigh, NC store!!!! He is also a GC Pro rep so he can get ANYTHING I need and give me a he77 of a price in doing so...ANYONE here needs anything he will give you a good deal. Call him at the Raleigh, NC store and tell him T-3 (that is Tee Three just like it sounds he will know who you are talking about) told you to call and I said to take good care of you! He will I promise. He is busy as all get out most of the time but that is because he is in demand and good at what he does. I HIGHLY recommend him for anything you need! I drive from Wilmnigton, NC to Raleigh (about 125 miles EACH way) to buy everything from that store. Every one there knows me and I get introduced to all the new hires when I am there. I try to send the store business and when I do they take care of people I send and take very good care of me when I go in there. I could not agree more that you should try and establish a relationship with someone at the place you do business. I have been dealing with that store since before GC bought out the Music Loft that was there in the 80's!!! I have known Michael and several of the other guys there for many years...Chuck and Pat have been there a long time to...

Give them a chance and I promise they will earn your business...

Peace,

T

 

[kevins]

At the risk of repeating myself yet again and once again proving myself to be an extremely old fogey, many of you don't go back far enough to remember life before Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Sam Ash, etc etc. Maybe if you lived in LA or NYC things were okay, but out in the real world (try Biloxi, MS) in the 60s and 70s? IT SUCKED.

When I was 15, 16, the only "big" shop was in the mall, and you had to wade through a bunch of cheesy organs to get to the guitar department. The single Precision bass was on the wall behind the counter and I don't think even the sales monkeys were allowed to touch it. Boy, that was GREAT. Oh, and prices? Yeah, whatever they wanted because no one else had anything like it unless you wanted to drive to New Orleans, where you might find it for 10 bucks cheaper. Oh, the good old days! Bad Guitar Center!

Then when I was maybe 18, Mountain Music opened up on Pass Road and boy were we stoked. Bunch of long-haired guys like us, selling......Peavey. Lots and lots of Peavey. "You can have a Peavey or you can have a Peavey, we have Peavey, too." They carried a few different companies re guitars and basses, but again - one model of each if you were lucky and the prices were whatever the manufacturer said they should be. You certainly weren't going to find one used on eBay.

Bitch, bitch bitch all you want about it, but it's better than it was. WAY better than it was.

Jack

PS: And I love my mom and pop dealers, too, I really do, especially those DuBaldo guys.

thats pretty irrelevant to what i was saying. which was simply giant chain stores make it hard for small buisness to grow. i think the big cities are great places in the sense that there are tons of well develouped small businesses and tons of variety and competition.

im not saying "bomb guitar center with biplanes!!!" im just saying "i dont like it when they build a store next to a guy whos just starting out." and "chain stores make it harder(not impossible) for people to follow a dream like 'opening a ______ store.'" and thats not to say small stores cant compete, i know plenty that do, and do a damn good job of it. i just like the idea of there being a lot of variety in a town.

its just an opinoin yo, not trying to be rude or anything. if you find a good deal there(any of the chains) go for it, but honestly i think you can find a better one those prices arent as low as they say they are.

remember once again its an opinion i personally choose to support smaller stores because i like the variety that tons of small stores vs one giant chain or a couple of chains provides. im not asking you or anyone to follow me or anything of the sorts. its what i do because i believe in it. im not going to ride your ass or be ****ty towards anyone for not doing what i do. i usually stay out of these kinds o' threads but everybody was getting on poor shakinbacons ass.

 

[bovinehost]

thats pretty irrelevant to what i was saying

Oh, well, terribly sorry about all that, then.

I'll try to concentrate more in the future.

 

[Big Poppa]

kevins p[lease give me one example of where a gc opened up next to a new little store. Im in the business and have watched their expansion and it has never happened.

Any store or company looking to grow or expand looks at each market and determines one that gives them the highest chance of success Usually that is a market where a mom and pop and been spoiled by having the market to themselves.

 

[lorino]

kevins p[lease give me one example of where a gc opened up next to a new little store. Im in the business and have watched their expansion and it has never happened.

Any store or company looking to grow or expand looks at each market and determines one that gives them the highest chance of success Usually that is a market where a mom and pop and been spoiled by having the market to themselves.

Interestingly enough, after GC opened in Brookfield, WI the other stores thrived. One actually moved, expanded, and is a great example of a mid-sized local operation. Probably not the norm, but we have an embarassment of riches in our area - within 5 miles or so from my house:

• Guitar Center - a decent one; are there ever enough basses?
• Cream City Music - this is the one that moved and expanded. Great place, great selection, and great people. Pretty large eBay business too. Oh yeah, they moved closer to the GC - just about a mile up the main retail drag.
• Interstate Music - pretty big; equally focused on retail and the local school band rental business
• White House of Music - backing off retail, but still some; focused on rental and music lessons
• Wade's Guitar Shop - not within 5 miles, but still real close. Very small and a very cool 'players' type shop; thriving because Wade is the best set-up and repair uy around.

All were here before GC and all are doing well.

JIM

 

[ZiggyDude]

I am trying to remember where it was - but I have also heard a case where moving across the street from a GC helped one place. Let the GC draw the traffic and folks will stop by just to see what you have. Then - let the best store win. Kinda like a shoppng mall I guess.

 

[Big Poppa]

Yeah in most markets there is no media buys for guitars...GC comes in and does TV and Radio and hypes the sector up

 

[Colin]

Yeah in most markets there is no media buys for guitars...GC comes in and does TV and Radio and hypes the sector up

I was amazed at all the GC commercials I heard on radio. I've been thinking about doing it myself

 

[kevins]

kevins p[lease give me one example of where a gc opened up next to a new little store. Im in the business and have watched their expansion and it has never happened.

Any store or company looking to grow or expand looks at each market and determines one that gives them the highest chance of success Usually that is a market where a mom and pop and been spoiled by having the market to themselves.

remember i didnt necessarily name "guitar center" or "sam ash" or any specific store. i said chain stores in general, and thats not limiting to the musical instrument business either, thats department stores, tool stores, and places that sell fashionable hats and what not too. i just said in general that chains make it harder for the small guys that are just starting out, and this, taking into consideration what you're saying, depends a lot on the ethics of the company, there are chains that wont stomp on people and there are chains that are more than happy to.

i also said thats not always the case. in many cases the stores that have been around for a long enough time to grow have, like said earlier, done better with the competition.

as said earlier this is my opinion. im not asking anyone to follow it. i do things based on my own standards. if you buy a guitar at a chain store for a good price, be happy with it, im not gonna grind my teeth at you or think any less of you for getting a deal, hell i'd probobly be happy for you, i cant remember the ammount of times someone posted a "i got a _____ at a guitar center" and i cheered them on for having a fantastic musical instrument, did i once rudely call them the devil for their choice of purchase or even mention that i personally choose single location small businesses over large chains? the answer is no, because that would make me an asshole.


EDIT:apparently i did say that a guitar center moved accross the street from a small business. sorry about that. i meant "i dont like it when big chains build next to a small business starting out."